[ExI] Subjective/Objective

[Jason Resch]

On Mon, Jul 13, 2026, 4:40 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
> Hi Adrean,
> Thanks for jumping in.
> I hope you're not asserting that beliefs about qualia are unfalsifiable?
> Did you see my response to Ben about an hour before you sent this, where I
> discussed fixing issues for people who suffer from achromatopsia?
> People are working on cortical visual prosthetics and are getting close to
> figuring out how to stimulate the cortex in a way that results in the
> experience of color qualities.
> Once they know what is responsible for color qualities, and what to
> stimulate in the cortex to produce them, all this will be objectively
> understood, including the method by which those qualities are rendered into
> our conscious knowledge or experience.
> And if it is demonstrated to be something more than just 'messages,' it
> would falsify the belief that it is all messages or 'signals'.
>


Brent,

Wasn't this addressed by the experiment in 2009 where colorblind monkeys
had their retinas infected with a virus that coded for a new photopigment,
and then in a few weeks their brains adjusted to process the new signals in
a way that allowed them to discirminate colors they weren't previously able
to discriminate?

This result suggests to me that it's not any new molecules introduced into
the brain that gave these monkeys a new color property, but rather, new
signals/data coming into the visual cortex which were not previously there.
After the visual cortex rewired itself to be able to distinguish and
appropriately process this new signal (a signal that was uncorrelated with
either of the other two color signals from the retina) the monkeys would
then see this new color, which is completely unlike seeing any mixture of
the other two colors.

Jason


>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2026 at 12:43 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2026 at 1:39 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat
>> <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2026 at 4:57 AM Ben Zaiboc via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>> >> On 13/07/2026 02:23, Brent Allsop wrote:
>> >> > When we are aware of many qualities at one time as one unified
>> gestalt experience, something more is happening — effing of the ineffable.
>> >>
>> >> Nope, nothing more is happening. When we become aware of something,
>> when many signals are happening at the same time and influencing each
>> other, that is what is happening - we become aware of it. I don't know what
>> else could be happening. Isn't it remarkable enough?
>> >
>> > That is a falsifiable claim.
>>
>> Is it now?  Do you have a way to measure awareness other than by
>> measuring these signals (which would seem to include all relevant
>> aspects of the brain's physical status)?
>>
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