[ExI] [hackers-l] LinkedIn weirdness

Sat Mar 21 20:39:47 UTC 2026

 On Sat, Mar 21, 2026 at 6:08 AM Simon Quellen Field AB6NY <
simon.field at gmail.com> wrote:

> You are proposing using renewable energy electricity during the day to
> make syngas to burn at night.
>

Right, waste contains a relatively small amount of fossil carbon, where the
natural gas the syngas replaces is 100% fossil.

To replace that renewable electricity, California would use natural gas
> electricity.
>

Syngas would only be made from solar that was in excess of demand.  There
is some of that now and considerably more expected in the future.

This is a huge waste, as natural gas uses far less electricity to acquire
> than syngas, and is at least 40% more efficient by your numbers.
>

I don't track that, numbers please.

Also, instead of burying the carbon, you are putting it into the atmosphere.
>

> I wonder how long the carbon stays in the ground before leaking out as
>> CO2?  I was surprised to find that a landfill in the US is on the top 5
>> methane sources.
>>
>
>  I have to acknowledge that "do nothing" is a lot less trouble.
>

Keith

>
>
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>
> On Sat, Mar 21, 2026 at 2:23 AM Keith Henson <hkeithhenson at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I read through the website, and the only mention they have for scale is
>> 300 MWh.
>>
>> That's not very much; California fires up something in the range of 30
>> GW of natural gas turbines when the sun goes down.  I am proposing to
>> make syngas from renewable energy and waste to replace natural gas for
>> this use.  Or we could make about twice as much jet fuel from LA trash
>> as LAX uses.  The fully built-out system is huge.  LA could soak up 20
>> GW for 8 hours during the day and make enough syngas to produce 20 GW
>> for 12 hours.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 21, 2026 at 1:27 AM <vid.beldavs at fotonika-lv.eu> wrote:
>> >
>> > What I find fascinating about organic redux flow batteries (ORFB) is
>> that costs can be expected to decline as implementation is scaled.  Use
>> widely available materials. Minimal use of critical materials.  A early
>> pilot was implemented in Austria in 2023.
>> https://www.cmblu.com/en/press-and-media/first-solidflow-energy-storage-system-delivered/.
>> The concept appears ideal for decentralized, micro-grid power, for wind
>> farms, solar farms and data centers in combination with super capacitors
>> for instant response to power fluctuations.
>> > Partners are welcome to join us in developing innovative solutions.
>> Vid Beldavs
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: power-satellite-economics at googlegroups.com <
>> power-satellite-economics at googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Keith Henson
>> > Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2026 6:53 AM
>> > To: Michael Shiloh <michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: The Hackers Conference - members-only discussion list <
>> hackers-l at lists.hackersconference.org>; ExI chat list <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>; extropolis at googlegroups.com; Inventor's
>> Lunch <inventors-lunch at googlegroups.com>; Power Satellite Economics <
>> power-satellite-economics at googlegroups.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [hackers-l] LinkedIn weirdness
>> >
>> > On Fri, Mar 20, 2026 at 8:49 PM Michael Shiloh <
>> michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > This is what All Power Labs in Berkeley is doing
>> >
>> > I looked, and they are a biochar project, not making syngas out of
>> mixed waste.
>> >
>> > Keith
>> > > On Fri, 20 Mar 2026, 02:57 Keith Henson via Hackers Discussion, <
>> hackers-l at lists.hackersconference.org> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> I posted this on LinkedIn.
>> > >>
>> > >> The biggest problem with renewable energy is large scale, long term
>> storage.
>> > >>
>> > >> "A Victorian gas-making technology might solve this problem. About
>> > >> 1860, they made gas by burning coke till it got white hot, then
>> > >> shutting off the air and blowing steam through the mass of coke. This
>> > >> made CO and hydrogen, which was distributed as town gas.
>> > >>
>> > >> "For carbon, we can use municipal waste, which is 40% carbon. For
>> > >> heat, renewable electricity from wind or solar. 4 MWh will vaporize a
>> > >> ton of carbon in steam, making about 11 MWh of syngas. The syngas can
>> > >> be stored and then burned in a combined cycle turbine, giving over 6
>> > >> MWh of electricity.
>> > >>
>> > >> "This scales to a rather large size. LA makes 100,000 tons per day,
>> > >> of which 40% is carbon. Run 1/3rd of the day, the gasifiers could
>> > >> absorb
>> > >> 20 GW, producing 240 GWh of syngas. This sounds like a lot until you
>> > >> realize California is putting in 13 GW over the canals."
>> > >>
>> > >> According to LinkedIn, almost 1000 people read it, including people
>> > >> in the utility industry.  There were no comments except my comment,
>> > >> giving my email.  No emails.
>> > >>
>> > >> Is the idea so strange that people can't understand?  75 years ago,
>> > >> the US made town gas from coke at a similar scale.  Is invoking
>> > >> chemical reactions from the Victorian era simply rejected?
>> > >>
>> > >> Any thoughts on the results?  I am mystified.
>> > >>
>> > >> Keith
>> > >>
>> > >> PS March 24, I am giving a talk on this topic to the local IEEE
>> > >> chapter.  If it is not closed, I will let you know.
>> > >> --
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