[ExI] Gemini on Mathematical Realism

[John Clark]

On Tue, Oct 6, 2026 at 2:38 PM Jason Resch via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

 > *Gemini said **Mathematics is an engineered formal language *
> *constructed to discover objective, invariant structural truths.***
>

*I'm not too sure about the "engineered" part but otherwise I agree that
mathematics is the language of physics, and if that is true then physics is
more fundamental than mathematics.  *

* > "Mathematics is the science we could still do if we woke up tomorrow
> and there was no universe."*


*The trouble with that is if there was no physical universe then there
would be no way to perform a calculation, so there would be no way to
think, so there would be no way to wake up, so there would be no way for
you to be you.  *

> *many otherwise unexplainable features of our physical universe, can be
> explained if we assume we exist in an infinite ensemble (of the type that
> would exist under mathematical realism).*


*Yes that is true but you don't need to assume anything as powerful as
mathematical realism to explain that, and Occam's razor says we should keep
assumptions to a minimum. Mathematical realism insists that everything that
is not logically contradictory physically exists. Hugh Everett's Many
Worlds theory assumes something much more modest, everything that does not
violate Schrodinger's Equation exists, and it can explain why our universe
seems to be fine tuned for life just as well as mathematical realism can,
so according to Occam it is the superior theory. *


> *> I do regard mathematics, and simulation in particular, as a sort of
> telescope that enables us to see and study any possible universe.*


*I agree.  *


>  *"** Kurt Gödel: The existence of absolutely undecidable mathematical
> propositions, seems to disprove the view that mathematics is only our own
> creation;*
>

*Mathematics is the language of physics but like any language it is capable
of writing both fiction and non-fiction, I have often wondered if some of
the more esoteric areas of higher mathematics might be the mathematical
equivalent of a Harry Potter novel. If so then Harry Potter's shoe size is
an undecidable proposition.  *

*John K Clark*



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