[Paleopsych] Re: joel
mroele at hetnet.nl
Sun Jul 25 18:03:17 UTC 2004
Why are the estimates of Prof. Lynn (and co-author prof. Vanhanen)
"misguided (if not downright racist)"? What is scientifically or morally
wrong with gathering data on the correlation between IQ and national wealth?
Of course data on IQ in 3rd world countries are scanty. And regarding
the IQ-national wealth correlation there is the question of causality
(Lynn researched adverse effects of malnutrition on IQ, but also
possible genetic group differences in IQ).
Over two-thirds of the muslims in my country (the Netherlands - source
Central Bureau of Statistics) marry a friend of the family living in the
region where their parents were born; over one third marry a
first-cousin; almost all marry within their own community (endogamy).
See for inbreeding depression effects on IQ e.g. Badaruddoze & Afzal in
Behavior Genetics 1993: 343-347 - can be 10 points in 1 generation. And
yes, muslims in my country have lower IQs and poorer academic
achievement than other immigrants and their offspring (data in Dutch,
Mentioning averages of a group is not racist - judging individual
members of the group by them is (it's also stupid). For instance, it is
a simple fact that Ulster is not a centre of tolerance, but it's stupid
to suggest that somebody is intolerant because he's from Ulster. I don't
think Lynn is from Ulster, by the way. He was educated in England, lives
in England and speaks with a very posh English accent.
As for the other 'bad' thing the Premise Checker is supposed to have
said: it is a simple fact that terrorism causes far fewer deaths than
daily traffic - even in Israel. I think this should motivate people to
go on with their daily lives and not let the terrorists scare them, ruin
their economy and hold them hostage. Cars kill, but they don't want to
take over our civilization - muslim terrorists do. Therefore I think we
should put every effort in fighting the terrorists and promoting
enlightment in muslim countries. But that's an opinion - it's not
science. And if the Premise Checker doesn't share it, well that's the
fun thing of living in a free society: he doesn't have to and it doesn't
make him a bad person. It makes him an opponent in an open political
discussion, not someone who should be gagged in a scientific forum.
All in all I fail to see why the Premise Checker has anything to
apologize about. And to ask someone to "take back" data that he
mentioned is not just silly, but also totalitarian. Data should never be
suppressed. That's happens to be the core value of a free society,
including our own paleopsych group - because free exchange of data is
what we're all about. Don't let political parochialism kill off
scientific discussion - that's just the thing that happened/happens in
nazi-, comunist- and militant islam countries.
Joel Isaacson wrote:
>> From: Premise Checker <checker at panix.com>
>> Reply-To: The new improved paleopsych list <paleopsych at paleopsych.org>
>> To: The new improved paleopsych list <paleopsych at paleopsych.org>
>> Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] 9/11 Report: Exectitve Summary
>> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 21:58:41 -0400 (EDT)
>> The IQ data come from Richard Lynn's _IQ and the Wealth of Nations_.
>> It's the most thorough assemblage of national IQ statistics ever made.
> Look, Frank, "Moslem nations" comprise hundreds upon hundreds
> of millions of people on this planet, perhaps close to a BILLION!
> Richard Lynn of Ulster, Ireland (a center of tolerance...)
> also says that women lag 4 IQ points behind men; also has his own
> peculiar recipe for Eugenics. By his own account, Richard Lynn
> does not have, as you state above, "the most thorough assemblage
> of national IQ statistics ever made." what he has is "measures and
> estimates" -- whatever that means... in his own words: "We give
> measures and estimates of average IQs in the world's 185 nations..."
> [See his web site copied below for reference]. If you wish to
> buy into that garbage that's your privilege, of course... but
> don't quote the 90 point IQ as fact -- it is not.
> You also mention the Israeli predicament in your other post.
> As a native of Israel I know a thing or two about conflicts
> with Moslems, and it wouldn't be hard for you to guess on
> whose side I weigh in... but the last thing I can afford
> is to denigrate the IQ of Palestinians... this is not
> the issue with militant Palestinians, unfortunately...
> I repeat, take back the misguided (if not downright racist)
> "estimates" of Professor Lynn -- you ought to know better.
> -- Joel
> Richard Lynn
> Professor Emeritus,
> University of Ulster
> Research Interests:
> Sex Differences
> Race Differences
> North Wing, Siston Court,
> Bristol BS16 9LU, (UK)
> Tel 0117 303 9058.
> E-mail Richard at RLynn.co.uk
> I graduated in psychology at the University of Cambridge and have
> worked as lecturer in psychology at the University of Exeter,
> professor of psychology at the Economic and Social Research Institute,
> Dublin, and at the University of Ulster.
> Most of my work has been on intelligence. In 1983 I published a
> paper in Nature showing that the IQ in Japan had increased over the
> course of the previous half century, a phenomenon now known as the
> Flynn Effect following the demonstration by Jim Flynn of secular
> increases in intelligence in number of countries. In 1989 I proposed
> that the increases in intelligence have been caused by improvements in
> nutrition. I have also published several papers showing that
> intelligence is associated with brain size and reaction times.
> My work on intelligence and brain size led me to consider the
> problem that women have smaller brains than men even when allowance is
> made for their smaller bodies. This implies that men should have
> higher average IQs than women, but it has been universally asserted
> that men and women have equal average IQs. In 1994 I proposed that the
> solution to this problem is that girls mature faster than boys and
> this compensates for their lower IQs, which only appear at the age of
> 16 onwards. Among adults men have higher average IQs than women by
> about 4 IQ points. This advantage consists largely of higher spatial
> abilities but is also present in non-verbal reasoning.
> My major discovery is that the Oriental peoples of East Asia have
> higher average intelligence by about 5 IQs points than Europeans and
> peoples of European origin in the United States and elsewhere. I first
> published this finding in 1977 in a paper on the intelligence of the
> Japanese. In subsequent years the high Oriental IQ has been confirmed
> in numerous studies of Oriental peoples in Hong Kong, Taiwan, South
> Korea, China, Singapore and the United States.
> In 1991 I extended my work on race differences in intelligence to
> other races. I concluded that the average IQ of blacks in sub-Saharan
> Africa is approximately 70. It has long been known that the average IQ
> of blacks in the United States is approximately 85. The explanation
> for the higher IQ of American blacks is that they have about 25 per
> cent of Caucasian genes and a better environment.
> The theory I have advanced to explain these race differences in IQ
> is that when early humans migrated from Africa into Eurasia they
> encountered the difficulty of survival during cold winters. This
> problem was especially severe during the ice ages. Plant foods were
> not available for much of the year and survival required the hunting
> and dismembering of large animals for food and the ability to make
> tools, weapons and clothing, to build shelters and make fires. These
> problems required higher intelligence and exerted selection pressure
> for enhanced intelligence, particularly on the Orientals.
> My book Dygenics showed that the eugenicists were right in their
> belief that modern populations have been deteriorating genetically in
> respect of health, intelligence and the personality trait of
> conscientiousness. This deterioration began in the second half of the
> 19th century and has continued up to the present.
> My book Eugenics considers what measures could be taken to rectify
> this and discusses the genetic future of mankind. It is argued that
> genetic improvement is likely to evolve spontaneously through the
> technique of embryo selection in which women will use IVF to grow a
> number of embryos, have them genetically assessed and will select for
> implantation those with genetically desirable qualities. It is also
> likely that some authoritarian states will use genetic engineering to
> improve the genetic quality of their populations for military purposes.
> My book IQ and the Wealth of Nations (co-author Tatu Vanhanen of the
> University of Helsinki) considers the problem of national differences
> in wealth and economic growth. Economists and other social scientists
> have been trying to solve the problem of why some nations are so rich
> and others so poor since Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations (1776). We
> argue that an important but hitherto unrecognised factor is the IQs of
> the populations. We give measures and estimates of average IQs in the
> world's 185 nations and show that national IQs are strongly related to
> national incomes and rates of economic growth. The principal reason
> for this is that nations whose populations have high IQs can produce
> goods and services that command high values in international markets.
> See below for more details of this argument and on the IQs of every
> nation in the world.
> The intelligence of the Japanese.
> Bulletin of the British Psychological Society,1977,30,69-72.
> IQ in Japan and the United States shows a growing disparity.
> Nature, 1983, 306, 291-2
> The role of nutrition in the secular increase of intelligence.
> Personality and Individual Differences, 1990, 11, 273-286.
> Race differences in intelligence: a global perspective. Mankind
> The evolution of racial differences in intelligence. Mankind
> The geography of intelligence. In H.Nyborg and J.Gray (Eds)
> The Scientific Study of Human Nature. New York: Elsevier,1997.
> Sets out evidence for race differences in intelligence worldwide.
> Concludes that the average IQs of the races are Orientals 105;
> Europeans, 100; South Asians, 90; Native American Indians, 90;
> Australian Aborigines, 90; sub-Saharan Africans, 75.
> Sex differences in intelligence and brain size: a developmental theory.
> Shows that men have higher average IQs than women by about 4 IQ points.
> Dysgenics: Genetic Deterioration in Modern Populations. Westport, CT:
> Eugenics: A Reassessment. Westport, CT: Praeger, 2001
> IQ and the Wealth of Nations (Co-author Tatu Vanhanen, University of
> Westport, CT: Praeger, 2002.
> Racial and ethnic differences in psychopathic personality.
> Personality and Individual Differences, 2002, 32, 273-316.
> Shows that psychopathic personality considered as a dimension of
> personality is highest among blacks and Native Americans, next highest
> in Hispanics, lower in whites and lowest in Orientals.
> (With P.Irwing and T.Cammock) Sex differences in general knowledge.
> Intelligence, 2002,30, 27-40.
> Examines sex differences in 19 areas of general knowledge and finds
> women have more knowledge than men of medicine and cookery, while men
> have more knowledge than women of politics, history, geography, sport,
> finance, and science. Men have more general knowledge than women.
> Skin color and intelligence in African Americans.
> Population and Environment, 2002, 23, 365-375.
> Presents new evidence showing conclusively for the first time that
> lighter skinned blacks have higher IQs than darker skinned blacks.
> This supports the theory that the proportion of white ancestry is a
> determinant of the intelligence of African Americans.
> All material © 2000, 2001,2002 R Lynn
>> On 2004-07-24, Joel Isaacson opined [message unchanged below]:
>>>> From: Premise Checker <checker at panix.com>
>>>> Reply-To: The new improved paleopsych list <paleopsych at paleopsych.org>
>>>> To: paleopsych at paleopsych.org
>>>> Subject: [Paleopsych] 9/11 Report: Exectitve Summary
>>>> Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 18:54:16 -0400 (EDT)
>>>> Final Report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon
>>>> the United States
>>>> [Note under "Financing" that the attacks cost $400-500,000 and that
>>>> the annual budget of Al Qaeda is estimated to be about $30 million.
>>>> I say that any undergraduate engineering class in the United States
>>>> could have pulled it off. My biggest fear is a virus that could
>>>> take large numbers of computers out of service for a long time.
>>>> (The Internet itself was happily designed to be routed around.) But
>>>> this would require a level of cognitive ability way ahead of what
>>>> Moslem nations, with an average IQ of about 90, could accomplish.
>>>> The higher IQ nations are far more interested in trading with the
>>>> U.S. than in destroying it.
>>> Look, Premise Checker, it is downriight idiotic to pronounce an
>>> IQ of about 90" in Moslem nations. Where do get your facts?
>>> Also, denigrating the smarts of the adversary is an act of singular
>>> stupidity, sepecially in this case. Take it back and re-think
>>> the wisdom of your attitudes. -- Joel
>>>> [Relax, folks. Life will go on, even if 100,000 Americans are
>>>> killed during another attack. 6,000 Americans die every day.]
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