[Paleopsych] Re: Blue and Red States on a Global basis

Sat Nov 20 09:20:22 UTC 2004

At 06:49 PM 11/19/2004 -0800, Geraldine  Reinhardt wrote:
>Yes, sadly, atrocities are part of warfare and the one
>insurgent in Fallujah was a disaster.  But that insurgent
>was only ONE figure. Could have been a deranged
>military man.
>
>Fallujah for Americans meant they needed to win.  How can
>winning be a disaster?  Unless of course you decide to side
>with the enemy.
>
>The Arab world could  have shown a video of mass killing by
>Americans and the Arab world would have believed it correct.
>It's wartime and each faction must decide on which side they
>support.

In assessing future scenarios about what might happen in the MidEast in 
general,
it is essential to be realistic about the role of psychological factors we 
may legitimately
disapprove of... but have to live with. Righteous losing is still losing.

Of course, the Islamic world is doing strategic thinking about us just as 
much as vice-versa. Maybe more
so. We would be idiots to think their intellectuals are less insightful 
about politics and maneuvers
and the lessons of history than our own inner circle of decision-makers. 
And they too
are talking about the amazing things we miss, as bad as what their populace 
misses.

Best of luck to us all...

    Paul

>Gerry
>
>
>
>
>Gerry Reinhart-Waller
>Independent Scholar
>http://www.home.earthlink.net/~waluk
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hovland" <shovland at mindspring.com>
>To: "'The new improved paleopsych list'" <paleopsych at paleopsych.org>
>Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 5:42 PM
>Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] Re: Blue and Red States on a Global basis
>
>
>>No, I recognize that atrocities are a part of warfare.
>>
>>I also recognize that the campaign in Fallujah has been
>>a questionable military success and an absolute disaster
>>in PR terms.
>>
>>No matter what we think of it, that piece of video, which
>>we did not see in its entirety (but the Arab world did), is a
>>fabulous tool for fund raising and recruiting.
>>
>>Steve Hovland
>>www.stevehovland.net
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com]
>>Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 4:39 PM
>>To: The new improved paleopsych list
>>Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] Re: Blue and Red States on a Global basis
>>
>>Gerry, you seem to be calling for thoughtful appraisal of gobal forces,
>>and I appreciate it. Reason and analysis are needed. Steve's comment
>>about the dead insurgent indicates a completely unrealistic view of
>>warfare. The day before, an insurgent playing dead blew up a corpsman,
>>and the marines have every reason to be suspicious. Such events happen
>>all the time in war. Read Band of Brothers about the killing of German
>>POWs.
>>    Scan www.opinionjournal.com for the "Good news from Iraq /
>>Afghanistan" occasional pieces, and you see the other side.
>>Lynn
>>
>>Geraldine Reinhardt wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Killing that insurgent is an isolated incident and does NOT constitute
>>>initiating killing fields.   One robin does not a springtime make yet
>>>some
>>>sunworshippers grab any port in a storm.
>>>
>>>Gerry
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hovland"
>>><shovland at mindspring.com>
>>>To: "'The new improved paleopsych list'" <paleopsych at paleopsych.org>
>>>Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 3:41 PM
>>>Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] Re: Blue and Red States on a Global basis
>>>
>>>
>>>>After the killing of a wounded, unarmed "insurgent" by
>>>>a US marine, I would expect that a poll of the Islamic
>>>>world would reveal an unprecedented level of undying
>>>>hatred for the US.
>>>>
>>>>No amount of explanation will ever overwrite that image.
>>>>
>>>>Steve Hovland
>>>>www.stevehovland.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Geraldine  Reinhardt [SMTP:waluk at earthlink.net]
>>>>Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 3:30 PM
>>>>To: The new improved paleopsych list
>>>>Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] Re: Blue and Red States on a Global basis
>>>>
>>>>I would have thought Bush's task after being elected
>>>>U.S. President
>>>>was to mold his allies into a common cause.  That seems
>>>>to be what
>>>>we are now observing as Bush romances Chirac. Which of
>>>>the
>>>>European leaders still scorn Bush's lead?  And what
>>>>about Putin.....
>>>>I do think he's still part of the gameplan.
>>>>A new world-wide poll needs to be taken before the
>>>>Christmas
>>>>Holidays.  I think the Blue and Red States might offer
>>>>a different
>>>>profile.
>>>>
>>>>Gerry
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Werbos, Dr. Paul J."
>>>><paul.werbos at verizon.net>
>>>>To: "The new improved paleopsych list"
>>>><paleopsych at paleopsych.org>; "The new improved
>>>>paleopsych list" <paleopsych at paleopsych.org>
>>>>Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 3:13 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] Re: Blue and Red States on a
>>>>Global basis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>About 2-3 weeks before the election, the Financial
>>>>>Times
>>>>>(not a left-wing rag!) reported world-wide polls in
>>>>>which 3 nations supported Bush, 2 were neutral,
>>>>>and all others pro-Kerry. The 3 were Poland,
>>>>>Phillipines and Nigeria. The 2 were Thai land
>>>>>(one of the ties was Thai! sorry...) and India. Views
>>>>>of Islam clearly were in the background.
>>>>>My Division at NSF was mainly Indian and Nigerian,
>>>>>and we had some jokes...
>>>>>and some very embarrassed Indians. One of whom told
>>>>>me there was a new poll just
>>>>>before the election, and then it was only Poland. I
>>>>>didn't ping him for sources.
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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