[Paleopsych] Re: Blue and Red States on a Global basis

Sat Nov 20 16:22:09 UTC 2004

You are comparing Iraq to Viet Nam and the two
confrontations have very little in common.  Nam was
a territorial war without cause.  At least in Iraq we
have a reasonable image of who our enemy is.

Insurgents of Islamic ethnicity have morphed into our
immediate foe.  All wars are brutal in number count
and our war with Iraq is no exception.

You ask how many troops it will take to handle Iraq....
that answer depends on the degree to which Americans
wish to reject Islamic doctrine and Muslim lifeways.
If we value peace more than freedom of religion and
pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness then we will
acquiesce to Osama bin Laden and lay down our guns.

Gerry Reinhart-Waller
Independent Scholar
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~waluk

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Hovland" <shovland at mindspring.com>
To: "'Geraldine Reinhardt'" <waluk at earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 7:04 PM
Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] Re: Blue and Red States on a 
Global basis

> The Marines took Fallujah but now they are stuck
> with it.  Thousands of troops will be tied down for
> an undetermined period of time.
>
> Soon after Fallujah fell the insurgents started up
> in Mosul, with the Iraqi police going over to the
> other side.  We had to pull troops out of Fallujah
> but couldn't bring too many without giving the
> city back to the insurgents.
>
> Meanwhile the enemy is attacking all over the
> place, and we simply do not have enough troops
> to handle them.
>
> It doesn't matter what you feel about the war;
> it has its own brutal calculus: numbers count.
>
> If we couldn't handle Viet Nam with 500,000 troops,
> how many will it take to handle Iraq, and how
> many years to get up to that strength?  Will the
> American people support the war when we have
> a million men and women over there?
>
> Steve Hovland
> www.stevehovland.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geraldine  Reinhardt [SMTP:waluk at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 6:49 PM
> To: The new improved paleopsych list
> Cc: shovland at mindspring.com
> Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] Re: Blue and Red States on 
> a Global basis
>
> Yes, sadly, atrocities are part of warfare and the 
> one
> insurgent in Fallujah was a disaster.  But that
> insurgent
> was only ONE figure. Could have been a deranged
> military man.
>
> Fallujah for Americans meant they needed to win.  How
> can
> winning be a disaster?  Unless of course you decide 
> to
> side
> with the enemy.
>
> The Arab world could  have shown a video of mass
> killing by
> Americans and the Arab world would have believed it
> correct.
> It's wartime and each faction must decide on which 
> side
> they
> support.
>
> Gerry
>
>
>
>
> Gerry Reinhart-Waller
> Independent Scholar
> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~waluk
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Hovland" <shovland at mindspring.com>
> To: "'The new improved paleopsych list'"
> <paleopsych at paleopsych.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 5:42 PM
> Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] Re: Blue and Red States on 
> a
> Global basis
>
>
>> No, I recognize that atrocities are a part of
>> warfare.
>>
>> I also recognize that the campaign in Fallujah has
>> been
>> a questionable military success and an absolute
>> disaster
>> in PR terms.
>>
>> No matter what we think of it, that piece of video,
>> which
>> we did not see in its entirety (but the Arab world
>> did), is a
>> fabulous tool for fund raising and recruiting.
>>
>> Steve Hovland
>> www.stevehovland.net
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D.
>> [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com]
>> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 4:39 PM
>> To: The new improved paleopsych list
>> Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] Re: Blue and Red States on
>> a Global basis
>>
>> Gerry, you seem to be calling for thoughtful
>> appraisal of gobal forces,
>> and I appreciate it. Reason and analysis are needed.
>> Steve's comment
>> about the dead insurgent indicates a completely
>> unrealistic view of
>> warfare. The day before, an insurgent playing dead
>> blew up a corpsman,
>> and the marines have every reason to be suspicious.
>> Such events happen
>> all the time in war. Read Band of Brothers about the
>> killing of German
>> POWs.
>>    Scan www.opinionjournal.com for the "Good news
>> from Iraq /
>> Afghanistan" occasional pieces, and you see the 
>> other
>> side.
>> Lynn
>>
>> Geraldine Reinhardt wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Killing that insurgent is an isolated incident and
>>> does NOT constitute
>>> initiating killing fields.   One robin does not a
>>> springtime make yet
>>> some
>>> sunworshippers grab any port in a storm.
>>>
>>> Gerry
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Hovland"
>>> <shovland at mindspring.com>
>>> To: "'The new improved paleopsych list'"
>>> <paleopsych at paleopsych.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 3:41 PM
>>> Subject: RE: [Paleopsych] Re: Blue and Red States 
>>> on
>>> a Global basis
>>>
>>>
>>>> After the killing of a wounded, unarmed 
>>>> "insurgent"
>>>> by
>>>> a US marine, I would expect that a poll of the
>>>> Islamic
>>>> world would reveal an unprecedented level of
>>>> undying
>>>> hatred for the US.
>>>>
>>>> No amount of explanation will ever overwrite that
>>>> image.
>>>>
>>>> Steve Hovland
>>>> www.stevehovland.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Geraldine  Reinhardt
>>>> [SMTP:waluk at earthlink.net]
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 3:30 PM
>>>> To: The new improved paleopsych list
>>>> Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] Re: Blue and Red States
>>>> on a Global basis
>>>>
>>>> I would have thought Bush's task after being
>>>> elected
>>>> U.S. President
>>>> was to mold his allies into a common cause.  That
>>>> seems
>>>> to be what
>>>> we are now observing as Bush romances Chirac.
>>>> Which of
>>>> the
>>>> European leaders still scorn Bush's lead?  And 
>>>> what
>>>> about Putin.....
>>>> I do think he's still part of the gameplan.
>>>> A new world-wide poll needs to be taken before the
>>>> Christmas
>>>> Holidays.  I think the Blue and Red States might
>>>> offer
>>>> a different
>>>> profile.
>>>>
>>>> Gerry
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Werbos, Dr.
>>>> Paul J."
>>>> <paul.werbos at verizon.net>
>>>> To: "The new improved paleopsych list"
>>>> <paleopsych at paleopsych.org>; "The new improved
>>>> paleopsych list" <paleopsych at paleopsych.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 3:13 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] Re: Blue and Red States
>>>> on a
>>>> Global basis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> About 2-3 weeks before the election, the 
>>>>> Financial
>>>>> Times
>>>>> (not a left-wing rag!) reported world-wide polls
>>>>> in
>>>>> which 3 nations supported Bush, 2 were neutral,
>>>>> and all others pro-Kerry. The 3 were Poland,
>>>>> Phillipines and Nigeria. The 2 were Thai land
>>>>> (one of the ties was Thai! sorry...) and India.
>>>>> Views
>>>>> of Islam clearly were in the background.
>>>>> My Division at NSF was mainly Indian and 
>>>>> Nigerian,
>>>>> and we had some jokes...
>>>>> and some very embarrassed Indians. One of whom
>>>>> told
>>>>> me there was a new poll just
>>>>> before the election, and then it was only Poland.
>>>>> I
>>>>> didn't ping him for sources.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> paleopsych mailing list
>>>>> paleopsych at paleopsych.org
>>>>> http://lists.paleopsych.org/mailman/listinfo/paleopsych
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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