[Paleopsych] Tom Coburn on abortion

Steve Hovland shovland at mindspring.com
Sat Jan 15 18:00:26 UTC 2005

Actually, as a liberal I don't have any problems
with any of the components of ABC.

If you are not going to be responsible, you
should abstain.

In this day and age, you are crazy if you are
not faithful.

If nothing else is available, you should use
a condom.

But all this has to be based on objective studies
of the actual behavior of people, and not on our
values about how they should act.

Steve Hovland

-----Original Message-----
From:	Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com]
Sent:	Saturday, January 15, 2005 9:17 AM
To:	The new improved paleopsych list
Subject:	Re: [Paleopsych] Tom Coburn on abortion

Good c omments, Steve, except for the last paragraph. There is no study 
I am aware of that suggests that 'science based sex education' will 
prevent unwanted pregnancies. Can you find one?

What evidence I am aware of suggests that values-based education - 
"indoctrination" - does help substantially. Look at Uganda's experience 
for an example, when the ABC model did appear to reduce AIDS. Programs 
without the AB part seem to have a track record of failure (there are 
informal AB components going on in Brasil & Jamaica if those are your 
counter examples). If you can find an actual study to the contrary, I am 

We might conclude that both Right and Left have substantial blind spots 
when it comes to abortion. While the Right may balk at the C component, 
liberals I am personally acquainted with seem horrified by the AB 

Steve Hovland wrote:

>A lot of us on the left don't think abortion is
>a good idea.
>Anyone who knows a woman who has had
>an abortion knows that she pays an emotional
>price for it.
>But we also know that women do make that
>decision, and we don't think it is moral for
>them to be forced to go to dangerous
>back-alley abortionists when they do make
>that decision.
>The right needs to get in touch with reality
>about the actual sexual behavior of people
>from the age of 12 and up, and stop
>opposing the science-based sex education
>that would help prevent unwanted pregnancies..
>Steve Hovland
>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com]
>Sent:	Saturday, January 15, 2005 6:25 AM
>To:	The new improved paleopsych list
>Subject:	Re: [Paleopsych] Tom Coburn on abortion
>You are correct. I tried www.news.google.com (I use news.google because 
>I want actual news stories and not internet rumors) and I found one 
>story from Oklahoma (Fox news) where they reported that. I did find a 
>lot of secondary sources with the term "death penalty" but only that one 
>primary source. Ironically he did perform two abortions himself in his 
>medical career:
>I agree with you. His position is thoughtless. Such violent speech must 
>be opposed. I am personally repelled by abortion, but the right way to 
>deal with that is education and persuasion about better alternatives. 
>Violence is never the way. I plan to write to him and ask him to 
>moderate his views - using persuasion and reason again.
>I was doubtful because his profession - physician - should have taught 
>him to do no harm. But that is certainly no guarantee of reason.
>Michael Christopher wrote:
>>>>Michael, this is a questionable report. I just 
>>did a Yahoo News search for the terms:
>>Tom Coburn Oklahoma abortion capital punishment
>>No returns.<<
>>--Try Google (lots of matches). I'd give you a source,
>>but you'd have to tell me which sources you'd trust
>>first, so I don't waste my time only to hear "Well,
>>that's a liberal source, so I don't trust it". I've
>>learned to ask that question first, to avoid the
>>typical response.
>>Do you Yahoo!? 
>>All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo!
>>paleopsych mailing list
>>paleopsych at paleopsych.org
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