[Paleopsych] Tom Coburn on abortion

Sat Jan 15 23:38:34 UTC 2005

So are you saying that beliefs or values
trump facts in this case?

I don't believe that 12 year olds should
be having sex, but if in fact they are,
then I think they should have the same
responsibilities and resources as other
sexually active humans.

This may be a blind spot in our culture
which others do not share.

We may pass laws that say that kids 
shouldn't be sexually aware until we think 
they are, but some people have said they 
were sexy when they were quite young.

And it is a problem in the real world when
10 year old boys make passes at other
10 year old boys.  This is really happening
these days.  Not often, but schools are
confronting these episodes.

One reason for this is that girls are
developing earlier due to estrogen-like
chemicals in our food supply.  I don't
know that there are testosterone
equivalents that are waking up boys,
but I wouldn't be surprised if there was.

It's a real mess, but I don't think that we
should ignore facts in favor of beliefs in
this or any other situation.

Steve Hovland
www.stevehovland.net

-----Original Message-----
From:	Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com]
Sent:	Saturday, January 15, 2005 2:26 PM
To:	The new improved paleopsych list
Subject:	Re: [Paleopsych] Tom Coburn on abortion

No

Steve Hovland wrote:

>So are you willing to accept free access
>to condoms for 12 year olds, and access
>to abortion if the condoms fail?
>
>Steve Hovland
>www.stevehovland.net
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com]
>Sent:	Saturday, January 15, 2005 9:17 AM
>To:	The new improved paleopsych list
>Subject:	Re: [Paleopsych] Tom Coburn on abortion
>
>Good c omments, Steve, except for the last paragraph. There is no study 
>I am aware of that suggests that 'science based sex education' will 
>prevent unwanted pregnancies. Can you find one?
>
>What evidence I am aware of suggests that values-based education - 
>"indoctrination" - does help substantially. Look at Uganda's experience 
>for an example, when the ABC model did appear to reduce AIDS. Programs 
>without the AB part seem to have a track record of failure (there are 
>informal AB components going on in Brasil & Jamaica if those are your 
>counter examples). If you can find an actual study to the contrary, I am 
>open.
>
>We might conclude that both Right and Left have substantial blind spots 
>when it comes to abortion. While the Right may balk at the C component, 
>liberals I am personally acquainted with seem horrified by the AB 
>components.
>LJ
>
>Steve Hovland wrote:
>
>  
>
>>A lot of us on the left don't think abortion is
>>a good idea.
>>
>>Anyone who knows a woman who has had
>>an abortion knows that she pays an emotional
>>price for it.
>>
>>But we also know that women do make that
>>decision, and we don't think it is moral for
>>them to be forced to go to dangerous
>>back-alley abortionists when they do make
>>that decision.
>>
>>The right needs to get in touch with reality
>>about the actual sexual behavior of people
>>    
>>
>>from the age of 12 and up, and stop
>  
>
>>opposing the science-based sex education
>>that would help prevent unwanted pregnancies..
>>
>>Steve Hovland
>>www.stevehovland.net
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From:	Lynn D. Johnson, Ph.D. [SMTP:ljohnson at solution-consulting.com]
>>Sent:	Saturday, January 15, 2005 6:25 AM
>>To:	The new improved paleopsych list
>>Subject:	Re: [Paleopsych] Tom Coburn on abortion
>>
>>Michael,
>>You are correct. I tried www.news.google.com (I use news.google because 
>>I want actual news stories and not internet rumors) and I found one 
>>story from Oklahoma (Fox news) where they reported that. I did find a 
>>lot of secondary sources with the term "death penalty" but only that one 
>>primary source. Ironically he did perform two abortions himself in his 
>>medical career:
>>http://www.fox23.com/news/state/story.aspx?content_id=BF956298-934E-4B30-B9D3-DC274E134AF4
>>
>>I agree with you. His position is thoughtless. Such violent speech must 
>>be opposed. I am personally repelled by abortion, but the right way to 
>>deal with that is education and persuasion about better alternatives. 
>>Violence is never the way. I plan to write to him and ask him to 
>>moderate his views - using persuasion and reason again.
>>
>>I was doubtful because his profession - physician - should have taught 
>>him to do no harm. But that is certainly no guarantee of reason.
>>Lynn
>>
>>Michael Christopher wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>>Michael, this is a questionable report. I just 
>>>>>    
>>>>>
>>>>>       
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>did a Yahoo News search for the terms:
>>>Tom Coburn Oklahoma abortion capital punishment
>>>No returns.<<
>>>
>>>--Try Google (lots of matches). I'd give you a source,
>>>but you'd have to tell me which sources you'd trust
>>>first, so I don't waste my time only to hear "Well,
>>>that's a liberal source, so I don't trust it". I've
>>>learned to ask that question first, to avoid the
>>>typical response.
>>>
>>>Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>		
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