[Paleopsych] threat and signals of commitment

[G. Reinhart-Waller]

Alice,

>> Someone beyond the liberal/conservative
dichotomy may be rejected by both sides as a nuisance,
a threat to shared assumptions that define a group
against another.

This is absolutely amazing!  Why would any audience 
reject someone who cannot plop into either the liberal 
or conservative camp?  Please explain the threat you 
feel is apparent.  This I need to hear!

Since Todd included this in his email (below) I assumed you were author of the first paragraph, especially since you were also posted on this.  If you weren't the speaker, any idea who was?
And....if you clearly understand what Todd has to say, then could you kindly enlighten me why he mentions "moderates" and their refusal to commit?

Regards,
Gerry





----- Original Message ----- 
From: Alice Andrews 
To: G. Reinhart-Waller 
Cc: The new improved paleopsych list 
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] threat and signals of commitment



Hi. I have no idea what this means:

I still do not understand Alice's call for all to select either a liberal or conservative focus. 

I have never and would never call for such a thing. It's ludicrous.

I generally don't use these words on this list:  'liberal' etc, and rarely get political here. In fact, I'm not sure if i have ever used these terms on Paleo, though maybe. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else? 
My only contribution to this discussion was to mention that Randy Nesse's book seemed an appropriate book for understanding why some people fear people who sit on fence, etc. I think Todd's comments re all this, btw, were right on.


-Alice
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: G. Reinhart-Waller 
  To: Thrst4knw at aol.com ; andrewsa at newpaltz.edu ; paleopsych at paleopsych.org 
  Cc: ToddStark at aol.com ; waluk at earthlink.net 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 2:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] threat and signals of commitment



  Gerry, of the Alice & Gerry team, speaks.

  I still do not understand Alice's call for all to select either a liberal or conservative focus.  The last time I checked was pre 2004 election and from what the officers at my polling place told me,  I continued having the option to sign my voting preference as Independent.  It's possible that in less than 3 or so months, policies have changed but I would find this fairly unusual since I've heard nothing nor have I been notified by mail.  

  My reason for signing up as an Independent is because I saw very little difference in the platforms of Kerry vs. Bush, although I cast my ballot, as always, for the Democrats.  By demanding that everyone takes an either, or position is a sure fire way of again CRACKING our nation into two warring factions.

  Commitment to marriage, especially when children are involved, is different from commitment to a particular political party.  

  Gerry Reinhart-Waller

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Thrst4knw at aol.com 
  To: andrewsa at newpaltz.edu ; waluk at earthlink.net ; paleopsych at paleopsych.org 
  Cc: ToddStark at aol.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 8:48 AM
  Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] threat and signals of commitment


  Some thoughts about Alice and Gerry's email.

  I'm in agreement with Alice's thought, though I think the situation is greatly exacerbated by fear.  Threat shuts down higher planning functions and the facilties that make measured evaluation possible, and leans us toward more hard-wired action schema.  The need for action draws on our capacity to find salient patterns in massive amounts of noise very rapidly.  Most of us have a deep revulsion to behavior in people around us who seem to be vacilating or entering reflective thought when action seems to be called for.  We recognize that we can respond to threat with action or succomb.  Under conditions of fear, it is very difficult to persuade anyone that what is needed is calm reflection.  We pick up mostly on signals that show people are willing to commit to decisive action.  Witness the sudden popularity of firemen and policemen following 9/11.  

  The whole point of much political propaganda is to create this sense of threat so that people will pull toward these quick impressions, with the assumption that they are then more easily persuaded because this simplifies the decision process.  If you instill fear, some people will become paralyzed, but many will fall back on instinctive moral realism and their decisions become much more predictable.  This greatly facilitates group coordination.  It happens naturally, but obviously can be exploited readily.  

  Under these conditions, "moderates" are viewed with particularly deep suspicion by everyone else, because they don't seem to be willing or able to commit to action when needed.  Our idealized belief that wisdom lies somewhere in measured reflection and balancing different viewpoints quickly dissolves under conditions of perceived threat.  

  We recognize the need for commitment to action (or signals of the capacity for commitment) in each other.  This is often exploited in politics by confusing the capacity for commitment with commitment to particular causes.  

  Does that make sense?  It seems to me to explain a lot of our social behavior.  

  kind regards,

  Todd

  In a message dated 2/23/2005 8:59:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, andrewsa at newpaltz.edu writes:
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: G. Reinhart-Waller 
    To: The new improved paleopsych list 
    Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:55 PM
    Subject: Re: [Paleopsych] Re: paleopsych Digest, Vol 9, Issue 20


    >> Someone beyond the liberal/conservative
    dichotomy may be rejected by both sides as a nuisance,
    a threat to shared assumptions that define a group
    against another.

    This is absolutely amazing!  Why would any audience 
    reject someone who cannot plop into either the liberal 
    or conservative camp?  Please explain the threat you 
    feel is apparent.  This I need to hear!

    Gerry
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