[extropy-chat] Doubt and About

[Brett Paatsch]

Harvey Newstrom wrote:

> Brett Paatsch wrote,
> > 
> > Harvey Newstrom  wrote:
> > 
> > > Robin Hanson wrote,
> > > > I agree this is a huge problem, but you say "diluted" as
> > > > if you think the situation was ever any different.  It seems
> > > > to me that this is the way it has always been.
> > > 
> > > I disagree.  Things are different than they used to be.
> >
> > Maybe you are right Harvey. Maybe you are not. Why don't
> > you tackle something with a slightly narrower scope and give
> > more evidence for what your saying?
 
> What exact points did you disagree with, and what exact evidence
> did you want to see? 

I don't so much disagree with you as think you are re-voicing fuzzy
generalisations as a result of frustration. I thought if you homed in 
a bit you might get better purchase and less frustration. 

> I am not sure exactly what points you think require further 
> evidence. Or was it my suggestions you disliked. 

I didn't dislike them. I'm not on your case. 

> Do you disagree that we have more  talk here than action?

No I don't disagree. I just make the point that this is a chat list. 
Even says so right there in the subject header.  

>  Do you disagree that we should go beyond the
> fan-club stage and start actually creating the future ourselves? 

I have no view on the matter as I find your initial proposition too
fuzzy. I wondered if you'd want to expand on it, hence my question
which you've respond to below. 
 
> > If you have some specific things you'd like
> > to see done perhaps you could state them?
> 
> I would like Extropians to get real technology jobs, practice 
> radical life-extension techniques, sign up for cryonics, start real 
> think-tanks, produce real solutions, start real development 
> projects, and write scientifically rigorous papers to present our
> ideas.

Ok. But as extropes together or as individuals that just happen 
to frequent the Exi list?  The reason I ask is that I think one of the 
biggest questions is whether transhumanists should form a political
force. I do see merit in that proposition. I can see good arguments
for and against it. I thought that the WTA might become a political
organisation yet Exi might stay out of politics and that might give the
best of both worlds. 

> > I can empathise with frustration and perhaps sometimes the
> > list functions as a fraternity of the frustrated but there is 
> > little point just howling at the moon. 
> 
> Sadly, this is the primary cause why people drop out of the list.
> Discussions here seem to be incompatible with getting real work
> done.

Well the universe is contingent. Time spent typing posts to Exi is 
time not available for other things but people sometimes pick up 
stuff when they are just being people and talking to other people
too. 

> Eugen, Eliezer and many others have specifically questioned
> whether this list detracts from their serious interests elsewhere.

I reckon that's a good question I think but its always a personal 
one. Each of us should perhaps ask ourselves it but I doubt we 
can answer for otheres. Do you think the Exi chat list actually
works as a sort of drug that steals our creative juices or something?

Regards,
Brett