[extropy-chat] Bubble fusion--strong evidence for it.

Eugen Leitl eugen at leitl.org
Fri Mar 5 15:40:47 UTC 2004


On Fri, Mar 05, 2004 at 06:44:30AM -0800, Mike Lorrey wrote:

> Not entirely, Gene. Common consumer AC/DC power supplies are
> notoriously unfiltered, leaving significant degrees of alternating
> signal on a DC carrier voltage. 

Yes, but the claim wasn't 50 or 60 Hz. The claim was higher harmonics,
and enough sound field power to create cavitation strong enough for sonoluminescence via
*electrolysis*, using palladium electrodes.

Which is equivalent to, say, vigorous steel structure erosion 
through fecal precipitation from porcine aviation.
 
> There have been claims that the electrodes used by Pons and Fleishmann
> were properly baked to drive out common hydrogen from gaps in the
> crystal structure, allowing deuterium to take it's place and fuse more

The point is that palladium deuteride and palladium hydride (protide) behave
almost identically, chemically (with those lightest elements one actually
sees the isotope effect, while for the heavier elements the differences are
hardly measurable). If you have oxygen in the cell, sooner or
later you'll get a massive exothermic reaction.

> readily. This baking process was not used by other researchers. I can't
> say one way or the other.

I'm not feeling like digging out the original publication, but I remember
they were extremely sloppy experimenters.
 
> Saying the sonofusion isn't 'cold' because it achieves 100k K temps at

The new claims are 100 MK. 100 kK is way too could, unless the pressure is
truly monstrous.

> the point of collapse is a bit disengenuous. Even CF proponents claim
> high temps at the micro level where allegedly fusion occurs. The 'cold'

The CF proponents claimed they didn't knew how it happened, because the
effect wasn't classical. Since then the easier explanation has turned out the
effect wasn't an effect at all.

> moniker applies to whether the entire reactor operates at temperatures
> above sea level boiling points and pressures or not.

The same applies for the inertial confinement apparatus. It's cold but for
the fusion fuel pellet.
 
> On the contrary, heating water, or any fluid, to the edge of the
> boiling point creates a phenomenon where the hot surface creates
> bubbles in a boundary layer at the boiling point. As soon as the

Cavitations strong enough for luminescence is not boiling.

> bubbles rise out of the boundary layer, they are cooled and collapse.
> Whether they collapse fast enough for fusion is a different question
> entirely, and I don't think anyone has done an experiment with trying
> to boil deuterated acetylene yet.

I did. (Deuteroaceton is a common NMR solvent). It behaves exactly like
boiling aceton.

You will observe that Talleryakan et al. did something very different:

"During typical sonoluminescence experiments, spectral emission temperatures
range up to tens of thousands of kelvins, and the rapidly imploding bubble
walls can generate internal shock waves under certain conditions. The
temperatures and pressures inside the bubble are not known. For fusion to
occur, the interior would have to reach millions of kelvins, with pressures
of hundreds of megabars.

To promote fusion, Taleyarkhan and company tried to achieve more extreme
bubble conditions than in previous sonoluminescence experiments. First, they
used deuterated acetone (C3D6O) so that fusionable fuel was present. To get a
very high compression ratio, they used a beam of energetic (14 MeV) neutrons
to generate tiny bubbles in their beaker-sized container of superheated
deuterated acetone, estimating that the resulting bubbles will have a minimum
radius of 10-100 nm. That's five orders of magnitude smaller than the maximum
radius the expanded bubble is expected to reach.

To avoid the resistance to collapse that's frequently produced by residual
vapors, the experimenters degassed the acetone. Finally, they drove the
liquid with a very intense sound field. Team members performed
one-dimensional hydrodynamic shock-code calculations for the conditions of
their experiment to determine if fusion was possible. "

-- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a>
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