[extropy-chat] Consciousness is a process in multi-dimensional time! [Was: Qualia Bet]

[Marc Geddes]

On 12/15/05, gts <gts_2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 00:28:26 -0500, Marc Geddes <marc.geddes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> For your argument about aliens to work here, I think you would be
> forced
> >> to say that these aliens with brains wired differently from ours might
> >> not only see 'green' as 'red' but also see '5' as '3'. In that case I
> >> would
> >> say you are not referring to platonic ideas. If 5 exists objectively in
> >> a platonic sense then it is perceivable by all intelligent beings in
> the
> >> universe. In fact the SETI project works more or less on this
> >> assumption.
> >
> >
> > Not what I said.  Green is green.  All I said is that the property
> > 'Green' is not a primary property of physical objects.
>
> But isn't '5' a primary quality of groups of things of which there are
> five? And are you not trying to give color the same ontological status as
> number? Why not call them both primary, and ignore the supposed
> philosophical truth that secondary qualities exist only in observation and
> thus cannot be primary? After all if there were no observers in the
> universe then we would not be here discussing this problem.
>
> I'm trying to see the bridge between numbers and colors. One way to do
> that is to objectify colors in the same way we do platonic ideas like
> "five-ness".


I only agree that 'Green Quale' have objective existence.  Not they have
exactly the same metaphysical status as numbers.

I would say that your aliens who see green where we see red must have
> dysfunctional color perception. If I say otherwise, and if I equate
> numbers with colors, then I must admit they would not be wrong to see '3'
> where I see '5'.
>
> -gts
>
>
> _______________________________________________



See above.  I really hope I can shake you loose of this block.  I'm telling
you, 'Green' can't possibly be a primary property of physical objects.  Any
number of different observers would have slightly different perceptions of
the coloring of an object depending on their past memories and how their
brains were wired.  Which observers perception should we pick as 'the
objectively correct coloring of the object' ?  It just doesn't make sense.

The  'Green Quale' in itself is objective.  The  'Red Qaule' itself is
objective.  But these properties don't reside in physical objects.  A
physical object doesn't have an objective coloring.  'Green' is not a
localized property.





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