[extropy-chat] What are rights

[Tark]

Re rights:

 

We started with divine rights of kings, then natural rights, then human
rights; however there is a fourth type -- rights derived from reason. Most
schools of philosophy fall into two camps: one based on supernatural
metaphysics (religious, Plato's "forms", mysticism, etc.) and the other
based on the metaphysics of science and reason. 

 

Divine, natural, and human rights as stated come from that first camp, what
rights come from reason & science, or the other camp of philosophy? I am not
asking the members of the list to re-create objectivism by any means,
however you should recognize that there is another source of rights. One
camp followed from Plato to Hobbes to Kant to modern philosophers, the other
from Aristotle to Bacon, to Locke, to objectivism. One camp is the camp of
religion, the other of science.

 

So if rights based on the supernatural do not exist, and I submit they don't
for your client, then rights based on science & reason are the only ones
that would serve his need. Why both science and reason? Because reason alone
becomes unproven theory after several steps up the ladder of metaphysics,
and slowly metamorphoses into faith. If as you step that ladder you prove
the assumptions supporting the next, then it becomes less faith and more a
prognosis, forecast, theory, or projection.

 

Going to Amara's claim of right to body, and another's of right to mind,
that right derives from something. Going to Camus, one of the earliest
debates you should have is "does life have purpose, meaning, value, or not"
Camus posits that the next question that follows if you answer "not" is "why
am I still hanging around then?" 

 

So, my assumption is that all reading the list value life to some extent,
and think it has purpose derived from some form of metaphysics. If you don't
think it has value and purpose & have refused to answer the "why am I still
hanging around" please don't get in the way of the folks who do think it has
meaning and value as a pure courtesy if you would.

 

So the start point might be "if Amara thinks life has purpose and value, and
determines from that the right of ownership of her body, what reason-derived
moral begets that?"

 

Now I am suggesting a potential purpose -- you might consider members of
this list as belonging to the church of "We are Becoming God", based on
science, reason, and projections. We have no proof that the singularity will
come, but we have a reasoned projection. At some point current trends
projected onward we will reach a point of transhumanity. That could be
characterized as faith by some. What then lies beyond the singularity, will
we become at some point omnipresent and omniscient, or godlike? If we are
becoming god, is that faith or science?

 

Re: health care

One note on the socialized vs. free enterprise medicine chain: There are too
many other factors beyond health care affecting life expectancy in any given
region that Life-expectancy alone cannot determine which is best. E.g.
Living in the US in some cities is inherently more dangerous than living
anywhere in the UK. Indeed, living in Los Angeles, Chicago, Baltimore, and
some other large cities is statistically more dangerous for 21-39 year old
males than patrolling Baghdad with the Marines. There are also culturally
more risk-takers in the US than most comparable countries; witness the
recent phenomena of extreme sports which didn't start in Europe. US citizens
travel more frequently and longer to work than most other countries (just an
outcome of population densities) The most comparable countries would be
Russia, China, and Canada, however Canada has a much lower death rate from
violence. The other two examples belie the argument for socialized health
care. (note: I am discounting Australia because it's largely undeveloped and
under-populated once you leave the coastlines, if you go to JPL the
"earthlights" photo clearly demonstrates that.)

 

One other note: Someone asked how to get the best health care based on the
article regarding emergency rooms full to overflowing. The answer is simple,
move to where they aren't. I live two blocks from a great hospital in a
suburban area well away from major metropolitan areas. The second benefit is
that my house is on the same power grid, and even when ice storms take out
the power over the metropolitan area, the power is always put back on here
the quickest.

 

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