[extropy-chat] Tyranny in place

[Samantha Atkins]

On Oct 2, 2006, at 6:22 PM, Joseph Bloch wrote:

> The West managed to tolerate "erosion of our civil liberties" during
> both World War II and the Cold War, in the name of survival. We  
> managed
> to escape with those liberties relatively unscathed.
>

That was against much more clear enemies and dangers with a much  
clearer notion of what winning meant in the case of WWI.  Even with  
that we see some things done then as very much wrong today.  Today we  
are also putting into place mechanisms not used then and freedom to be  
left alone by the government is much deteriorated compared to what it  
was then.  Actually, except for the commie witch hunt period we didn't  
lose much in the way of civil liberties in the Cold War afaik.  What  
do you have in mind?

Besides, saying they were restricted back then and we did ok does not  
make it right and/or not dangerous then or now.

> It is indeed a conundrum. The very civil liberties we hold dear are  
> used
> as a weapon against the societies which embrace them, with the goal of
> using the forms of Western civilization to cause its downfall.

If we give them up then the downfall has already occurred.  So this  
cannot be an option.

> History
> has shown us that as the threats to Western civilization by those who
> would use its institutions to destroy it grows, the freedoms granted  
> by
> those institutions are restricted, lessening the threat. Once the  
> threat
> is removed, the restrictions are loosened. I see no reason to believe
> that same self-correcting mechanism is not still in operation.
>

As the machinery for utterly ubiquitous monitoring of the population  
is much refined now I think it is much more dangerous to flirt with  
such restrictions on freedom and much more difficult to correct, if  
necessary by force, run away excesses of restriction in the direction  
of tyranny.

- samantha