[ExI] free-will, determinism, crime and punishment

[Lee Corbin]

John Clark writes

>> Unless some loony-tunes really does believe in uncaused events
> 
> Well then nearly every physicist alive is loony because they also believe
> some events have no cause. Einstein was wrong, God not only plays dice
> He sometimes rolls the dice where they can't be seen.

Yes, I forget that not everyone accepts MWI yet. All outcomes
occur. You can consider an event to be uncaused---I suppose---
by (1) throwing up your hands and saying that God chose the
eigenstate, (2) worrying about the "Measurement Problem" and
having no hint what collapsing is all about and no idea about how
to find out, or (3) saying that there is just Chance in the universe.

>> just take references to "free will" to mean references to decision
>> making.
> 
> Ok, then decision making is just data processing, as deterministic as a
> Cuckoo Clock. You're a pair of dice or a Cuckoo Clock, those are the only
> options.

Heh, heh. How about "elaborate cuckoo clock"?  It doesn't bother
me that I'm an elaborate machine.  I thought that you endorsed the
deterministic data processing option, no?

>> You know very well that there is a big difference between choosing a
>> candidate as you normally do in a voting booth, and choosing one
>> because  someone is holding a gun to your head.
> 
> Yes you're right, there is a big difference. In Case 1 I know that if I vote
> for candidate X that ugly man standing next to me will pull the trigger on
> the enormous gun he has aimed at my head and splatter my brains all
> over the voting booth, and in case 2 I do not have that rather important
> piece of new information. New information does not always bring good news.

The point, again, (sigh), is that we may conveniently and coherently
describe your choice as dictated by your entire judgment and consideration
of everything you as "choosing freely" and responding to the vulgar threat
as "involutary choice".  These simple descriptions should not send you up
the wall.  You know perfectly well what is meant---you and I really agree
on all the pertinent facts of the matter.

If you vote for X because of the thug and his gun, you'll not be
able to say in the light of later (political) developments "You know,
I made a mistake about that guy, and I shouldn't have voted for
him."  The actual important issues are covered up by your stubborn
choice of language.

Lee