[ExI] The "real" world

[Brian Manning Delaney]

El 2010-03-24 12:25, Natasha Vita-More escribió:
> Brian wrote:

[....]

>> Anyone reasonable person who looks at the arguments and evidence for and
>> against CR would have to conclude that mild to moderate CR (for 'normal'
>> people -- those without a predisposition to eating disorders, those who
>> don't suffer from illnesses tht require ingestion of a lot of food, and so
>> on) is vastly more likely to lengthen life than not. I find it puzzling that
>> so few life-extensionists have even TRIED CR (to see whether 'painful' is,
>> for them, 'too painful')."

> But isn't "mild to moderate" CR comparable to simply eating healthfully?
> Eating healthfully means getting enough to sustain and not increase fat
> cells.  More important than CR is to eat healthy and exercise.  AND this to
> most people is very "painful".  For me, it would be exceedingly painful to
> eat large portions of fried food - or any food for that matter.  My body's
> cells would form a rebellion with gastritis, constipation, heart burn, and
> headaches.

Natasha, I'd say the question of the relation of "mild to mod." CR to 
health eating is tricky -- though I think it's a very important question.

 From all we now know, it seems that there is no threshold effect for 
CR. In other words, mild to mod. CR -- or, at least, mild CR -- is 
indeed "normal" healthful eating; or, to put it differently: normal 
healthful eating is healthful because it is, in fact, CR (though mild). 
Phytonutrients may play some role in the health benefits of normal 
healthy eating, but the evidence strongly suggests -- not everyone 
agrees with this of course -- it's the reduced (even if slightly 
reduced) energy-intake that matters, not the constitutes of hte diet 
(provided one isn't short on critical nutrients other than calories). I 
have a lot of friends who have gone on CR very gradually. They start 
eating just a wee bit less, get tests done, and see (slight) changes in 
the exact same parameters that change in people on more severe CR.

But 1800 calories of health food is likely better than 1800 calories of 
junk food (well, for longevity purposes!), even if you took supplements 
with the junk food. But 1800 cals of, say corn chips and bean dip with a 
good multi-mineral/vitamin is almost certainly a better longevity bet 
for the avg. person than 2500-3000 cals or health food (everything else 
being equal).

About exercise: I love exercise, but the better one eats, the less 
important aerobic exercise becomes for longevity, according to the lab 
animal data (mostly rodents) -- though longevity isn't everything, of 
course!

(Response to Dave later, poss'ly tomorrow, after I've found my notes on 
Sohal. Off to conference now.)

Best,
Brian