[ExI] The answer to tireless stupidity

[Adrian Tymes]

You miss one of my major points:

Yes, anyone _can_ use this.

Think about who _will_.  Or, at least, who is more likely to.

The odds of a scientist who knows evolution using this within the next five
years,
exceed the odds of a creationist using this within the same time frame.

Yes, that's getting into probabilities.  Yes, it's not guaranteed.  The
future can not
be guaranteed.  Even the Singularity is not absolutely certain to happen, in
any
form that we'd call a Singularity, but merely likely.  But certain outcomes
can
be made more likely - and if that's all that can be done, then it shall have
to be
good enough.

And in this case, it is more likely that people we would agree with will use
it,
before people we would disagree with, at least as regards to their use of
it.

2010/11/3 Dan <dan_ust at yahoo.com>

> I don't disagree about the "silent audience" in any discussion, though I
> wonder if some of them aren't just immediately turned off by a continuous
> stream of emotional arguments anyhow.
>
> Regarding facts, the problem here would be interpretation in many cases.
> Also, merely citing journal articles doesn't settle things in many cases.
> Think about those economists and market analysts pointing out that the
> housing bubble was going to burst and those who argued against them. The
> latter could've easily created chatbots citing all the relevant articles in
> peer-reviewed journals right up until the market unraveled in 2008. In a
> sense, it's all going to depend on what the silent audience takes for fact
> and reliable reasoning in the first place. (Of course, this is not an attack
> on chatbots per se, but merely to point out that the wider social context is
> important.)
>
> Regarding a Creationist setting these up, well, aren't there already cheat
> sheets that Creationists use? Isn't there a book out called _How to Debate
> an Atheist_? Yes, this can be used for good or ill, and, like you, I'm more
> the optimist here. But the likely long-term outcome is probably not going to
> be the Dark Side is thwarted by chatbots, but that Dark Side chatbots make
> the more intelligent people less likely to take chat seriously. (In my
> opinion, that might actually be a big win. There are almost always more
> important things to do. :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Dan
>
>  *From:* Adrian Tymes <atymes at gmail.com>
> *To:* ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
> *Sent:* Wed, November 3, 2010 2:17:20 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [ExI] The answer to tireless stupidity
>
> Very true.  However:
>
> 1) Might it be the case that those whose arguments are not based on facts
> have
> more buttons to push?  If they can not be secure in letting the other side
> have the
> last word, because they know everyone else can tell which side is the
> buffoon...
>
> 2) The point of the debate is more often to convince the silent audience.
> If one
> side keeps making emotional arguments, and the other side keeps rebutting
> by
> linking to facts supported by outside sources, more people who witness the
> debate will come away leaning toward the latter.
>
> 3) This is an interesting development as a political tool.  Like any
> technology, it
> can be used for good or evil.  However, like many new technologies, those
> who we
> view as "good" tend to be in a better position to use these tools, and thus
> will
> probably make more effective use of them (at least in the next decade or
> two).
> (In other words: try imagining an Extropian setting one of these up, then
> try to
> imagine a creationist setting one of these up.  It's easier to imagine the
> former
> case, no?)
>
> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Dan <dan_ust at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> This is not necessarily a cure for anti-science nonsense or even nonsense.
>> It
>> could be used against anyone holding any view: simply wear them down.
>> E.g.,
>> someone here argues for Extropians or transhumanist views and someone else
>> sets
>> up a chatbot merely to keep pushing their buttons.
>>
>>
>
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>
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