[ExI] destructive uploading was AI class

Jeff Davis jrd1415 at gmail.com
Tue Aug 30 23:47:30 UTC 2011

Gene et al,

It's my impression that the whole "destructive scan" meme is an
artifact of the microtome-sliced sample-preparation method of electron
microscopy.  I can't imagine that this anti-diluvian
sample-preparation and scanning method would continue into the future
as the dominant scanning paradigm.  Certainly not for **my** brain,

Please explain why it would be infeasible to clear the lumen of the
circulatory system of the vitrified patient, replace it with LN2, and
dispatch nanobots in this fluid to conduct the scan, non-destructively
from the inside, "infiltrating the brain" as Keith describes.

Then Gene, you make the comment below:

" ...there isn't any medical nantechnology, nor will there be any for
anyone reading this message right now."

We don't have the nanotech at the moment.  Well duh, but more to the
point, so what?  Scanning-for-upload will be the "back end" of the
freeze-wait-reanimate process, so the fact that we don't have the
reanimation tech -- scanning included -- right now is both well
established(in our circles) and trivially irrelevant.  Anyone "reading
this message right now", if vitrified (cryonically preserved) will
be,...well... preserved.  They will remain essentially unchanged,
essentially indefinitely, and consequently, will be there waiting when
the tech arrives.

But I don't have to explain this to you, Gene.  You're fully versed in
this business -- theory and practice -- having worked with 21st
Century Medicine maybe a decade ago helping to develop ice-blockers
for the vitrification process.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

So I'm befuddled.  (Scratches head in befuddlement.)  Why are you,
overqualified as you are in this business, making negative,
misleading, and coyly irrelevant comments?  Still pissy about the
knuckle-dragging atavism and luddite obstructionism of your fellow
humans?  Can't help you there.  Well,...actually...

Best, Jeff Davis

"Everything's hard till you know how to do it."
                         Ray Charles

On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Eugen Leitl <eugen at leitl.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 06:16:57AM -0700, Keith Henson wrote:
>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 11:45 PM,  Adrian Tymes <atymes at gmail.com> wrote:
>> snip
>> >  If the uploading process is destructive and one-way,
>> Can you think of any reason uploading would need to be destructive and one-way?
> Anyone reading this will only be uploaded as a nice chunk of
> vitrified tissue

> which will be presectioned and destructively
> scanned in a massively parallel fashion, abstracting nonrelevant
> data along the way. It is destructive, but not necessarily
> one-way, though it is effectively one-way as nobody will bother
> fabricating slow and expensive meat puppets.
>> I know Hans Moravec proposed that decades ago and it became a
>> pervasive meme, but it's an awful concept and a serious marketing
>> burden for transhumanism.
> Doesn't affect cryonics, as this side of suspension process is
> resurrection-agnostic.
>> I have reasons to think it would be a lot harder than infiltrating the
>> brain with nanotech monitoring posts and learning how to emulate it.
> It would be a lot harder since there isn't any medical nantechnology,
> nor will there be any for anyone reading this message right now.
> --
> Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
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