[ExI] Kelly's future

Kelly Anderson kellycoinguy at gmail.com
Tue May 10 06:09:56 UTC 2011


2011/5/6 salvatore micheal / sam iam <micheals at msu.edu>:
> Kelly's future could be closer than we think.

I hope I have that much of a future... :-)

> First watch the movie Robot Maid (can watch over Netflix).
> http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-7i-49-en-70-3pda.html

Sounds cute, and disturbing, at the same time.

> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1381106/
> to read a description.
> It's a sad but telling movie of our near-future times..
> Soon our technology will be capable of:
> building/making realistic 'sex toys' (robots/dolls capable of performing
> complex sex acts)

I have little doubt of this.

> interface devices so that sex can be performed 'over the internet' (see
> movie below)
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0262826/
> the link above is for Thomas in Love (also viewable over Netflix), a subtle
> French movie about a man isolated by agoraphobia
>  but what he does about it (his condition) is more telling about 'our human
> condition'

I can see agoraphobia becoming more prevalent in the future, as it is
enabled by the Internet, etc. I really enjoyed Nim's Island... not
that it has much to do with anything but agoraphobia. :-)

>  i suspect the ending may be unrealistic
> So our technology soon will enable us to
> 1. fall in love with virtual characters

We can fall in love with just about anything. A great example is the
Tamagotchi phenomenon, especially as it played out in Japan. Some
people actually went to court during divorce to determine who owned a
Tamagotchi. Others delayed trips because of the needs of these little
fellows.

The point is, you don't need much of a virtual character to fall in
love with. There are lots of guys out there in love with their
favorite porn star...

> 2. make love via technology (another ref is the movie version of Brave New
> World - see link below)

I think this is harder, as it's still in the future.

> 3. love with robots/simulacrum
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080468/plotsummary is the link for the older
> version..
> i believe there's a reference in there about having sex through a kind of
> device
> the device fails and the girl gets pregnant
> this is our soon-to-be technology.

Sounds like a standard condom with a hole in it... :-)

> what we DO with it is the Real question.
> will we replace real partners with robot lovers? (at what percentage? the
> fact we will is established)

Agreed. When the divorce rate is 50%, and a robot becomes the most
natural and safe 'rebound' relationship, it could get really high. I
think mostly it depends on whether women become less militant in the
future. If women have to compete with robots, will it improve the
women? Men are treated so shabbily in many relationships that robots
make a pretty reasonable alternative to further abuse. With the
continued growth of nasty personality disorders, I think this could
become pretty common.

> what will be the legal consequences? (such as with gay marriage and spousal
> rights)
>  as an example, will we be able to marry our robot gfs/studs? will they have
> entitlement rights?

Health insurance for my robot partner? :-)  Eventually, if we achieve
AGI, I think it has to happen. Otherwise, we'll just cease to be of
any importance sooner.

> what will be the social impacts of robot partners? (such as projected by the
> movie AI?)

This will be the biggest bit, I think. I think it may lead to the end
of marriage as we know it now. If people start living to obscene ages,
the need for reproductive sex will go down to near zero. That will
change things nearly as much as the robotics part.

> will we only use them in the sex trade? (as opposed to attempting to
> increase their awareness - purpose: partners in space exploration)

Not unless that's all they are good for. The guys in this TV show
about the realdoll dressed them up, talked to them, did lots besides
sex with them.

> the last item could be both 'good and bad' for society:
> using robots in the sex trade will reduce demand for humans currently
> involved

Yes, and that is probably a good thing.

An aside... If I rented out a group of RealDolls, would that be a
brothel? Would it be illegal? Should it be illegal? Is sex with toys
for money a decent business model?

> this increased dependency on robot-sex will tend to isolate humans from each
> other (just as the internet has a 'reversing effect' of actually isolating
> us - instead of 'bringing us together' as it could/should)

I think the Internet brings us together in silos of common interest,
but tears us apart in the real world. My girlfriend has no interest in
transhumanism, for example.

> it's possible there might be 'rogue robots' performing sex-crimes (such as
> illustrated in Robot Maid) - how do we deal with that?

Initially, they'll be taken apart. Then the anti capital punishment
people will jump in as they gain human rights. It's going to be a
bumpy ride for sure.

> when we embrace robot gfs/studs as lovers, we create a Huge set of problems
> society must face in the process

We also potentially solve a huge set of problems. These things are
tools, to be used for good and evil, just like any other tool. I think
there could be a pretty big reduction of rape in the future as
suitable alternatives and ubiquitous surveillance develop.

> when we use technology to make love with distant partners, we also take on a
> set of issues associated with that

Is that better than having a military wife have an affair at home, or
a soldier having a fling out in the field? There are a lot of
Amer-Vietnamese out there from this sort of thing. I suspect there
will be American-Iraqis and American-Afganis too... I haven't heard
much about it. I think relationships have been better with the video
conferencing technology provided to soldiers. Helps them feel like
they are still part of a family. Teledildonics will help the soldiers
of the future feel more connected to the "real world" back home, I
hope.

> when we fall in love with virtual characters, more social problems evolve..

Just as there are "chat affairs" now. The thing we most learned from
The Johnson studies back in the day is that the variety of human
sexual behaviors know few if any bounds. This is just more of the
same.

> sex over/via technology is a Hugely impacting set of problems facing
> humanity as we develop and integrate the technology

Tell me more... Is this bigger than a life expectancy of 500 years? I wonder.

> i personally feel technology has a tendency to isolate us from each other
> this will only increase in the near future

Or bring us closer when we have to be apart. Makes long distance
relationships more doable.

> because robots/dolls/studs can perform more consistently, with less
> complaints, less 'negative' characteristics (for a lover),

You don't think they'll improve upon Viagra in the future? :-)

>  i suspect they will be used more and more (as the technology becomes
> cheaper and more realistic)

Yes, but will this mean less sex between people? What about a marriage
where one partner wants way more sex than the other partner (yeah, I
know it would NEVER happen in the real world, but just play along...)
this seems like a way to get some balance. All this social networking
stuff started with sex somewhere near the core, didn't it? (I have to
admit some ignorance with regards to social networking, so I could be
WAY off base here).

> whether the robots/dolls/studs will actually be capable of feelings/love is
> a Whole 'nother issue indeed..

Not initially, but eventually, it seems inevitable.

> i'm guessing the first feeling robot will arrive around 50 years from now
> (not just simulate feelings - actually Feel)

We'll see, I hope. It could be sooner than that.

> if a robot can feel love, can we prohibit marriage / more permanent
> relationships?

We can never prevent permanent relationships. Some people have those
now with realdolls or even less. Whether marriage is extended to such
relationships is dependent upon how marriage is defined. This is why
the conservative religionists don't want marriage between gays. One
thing inevitably leads to another if you don't stop it at the first
step (so they argue). I tend to agree with this view. I don't see
anything more peculiar about a marriage between a girl and her
sentient robot than a marriage between two guys. I can't see marriage
extending to non sentient beings... or under sentient beings... like
animals, children, etc. Just too lopsided.

> many will disagree with me but i use awareness as a guide:
> if a robot is truly aware (as in a human/dolphin/whale/elephant/..) sense,
> then to me - it's human and deserves to be treated as human
> we need to decide these issues BEFORE their development.

I agree. I'm inclined to give them as many rights as we can up front,
so that when we're the laggards, they'll still extend those rights
back to us!

> i'm not part of the group who insists only humans 'have souls' or are the
> only 'instances of the divine'..

Nah, me either.

> i personally believe awareness is equivalent to 'having a soul' and makes
> the difference between machine and 'human'.

This is going to be a big argument in the future. Eventually, we'll
all be Kasparovs in everything though.

> i continue to push 'robot rights' before we develop sophisticated ones (such
> as displayed in the film AI)..

You go! Although you can't go extending rights to appliances. There
must be a high degree of sentience.

> no matter how inconsistent (something i Hate), flakey (another thing i
> Hate), superficial (yet another thing i Hate), or materialistic (yet yet
> another thing i Hate) girls are, i LOVE human women.

Me too, but I am open to the idea that it is perhaps because there is
not yet a better alternative. Once a better alternative does exist in
the real world, it becomes a trickier proposition. And it goes both
ways. Lots of women will trade in their real men for robots too.

> human women are magical to me .. words fail when i try to describe them ..
> as a personal aside, something happened to me recently which sorta blows
> away any robot-gf discussion..
> it renewed my faith in human beings - human beings are to be cherished and
> adored - not ignored and cast aside for robots..

I hope it works out that way for the majority of humans. Then again,
humans will evolve towards robots, and you could have the best of both
worlds.

> that's just my humble opinion, sam

Hey, this is all just a guess Sam. Who knows how it's all going to
play out. But sexbots, virtual personalities, pet rocks and Tamagotchi
of the future will all be a part of it. How big a part? Who can say.
Certainly big enough that someone is going to make a dynamic double
butt load of money.

-Kelly




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