[ExI] Obama keen on brain mapping

Alan Grimes ALONZOTG at verizon.net
Fri Apr 5 18:49:51 UTC 2013


Eugen Leitl wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 01:21:58AM -0400, Alan Grimes wrote:
>> What the heck is an upload transition? Google wasn't very helpful. Don't
>> you mean "My upload transition"? I mean, that would make sense, you

> No, because we're going to upload you. In your sleep. Without your
> consent. Because, that's the way we like it. Uh huh. Uh huh.

What assurance do I have that this is purely a joke? People who weren't joking have said this to me. Furthermore, there are a number of ontological frameworks espoused by uploaders that would morally oblige one to do this.

>> know, to talk about your own future transformations. But to talk in
>> terms of an infinitive/universal "upload transition" is simply wrong.


> What's the purpose behind the Sixth Great Extinction? None.
> It's a side effect of activities of a particular local
> primate species. No ill intent whatsoever. The result is still
> pretty impressive, and not in a good way.

Since then we have extended our sentience and expanded our morality. It 
must be assumed that all actions taken by sentient entities are 
deliberate and therefore they are morally responsible for them. I have 
no sympathy for your "forces of history" line of argument.

>> What rapid change? How would this "society" thing (whatever that is)

> Don't blink. 		Too late!

So you are assuming that uploads will inevitably use their [highly speculative] speedups in such ways, out of carelessness or malice, to quickly impose severe changes on free, sentient, human beings who are not uploaded?

>> feel obliged to "keep up with" it? Why not simply allow things to

> Because it beats going extinct. You can probably relate to that.

Why should I be at risk of going extinct? Don't you support 
morphological freedom and the right of all sentient beings to go on living?

>> diffuse out into common usage the way any other meme would. Is there

> I have no idea what you're talking about.

I mean that if some randomly selected Amish person neglected to read the 
news paper, he would never know anything about it. I mean that if I set 
up a mail filter to block all messages from uploaded people, then I 
would be free to chart my life course in any way my deviant little heart 
could desire without ever being affected by them.

>> something I really need to know but haven't been told?

> Yes Alan, you're on your habitual crusade. We get it.
> Here's some news: nobody cares about you, or me, or this
> little cybercorner. Collectively, we're stampeding in
> a particular direction. Our collective trajectory is
> effectively deterministic, even though individually
> each animal has no particular interest in going over
> the cliff.

> http://www.resilience.org/stories/2008-09-14/net-energy-cliff\

"We're running out of energy so therefore we should all become uploads 
so that we can run on processors that consume hundreds of times as much 
energy as our current embodiments in order to run at massive 
speed-ups."  =P

How is uploading not perfectly orthogonal to the energy crisis?

>>> The nicer scenarios get the neuroscience roughly right from the start,
>>> and then show increasingly large animal models - the trend is obvious,
>>> society has a chance to adapt, and the first uploads will not be
>>> strongly posthuman.

>> What is so special about this uploading thing that  society would have
>> to "adapt"?

> Alan, you you like the solar constant? How would you like if wouldn't
> be a constant? I understand most people have issues using a shovel to
> get your daily air allowance.

What is the relationship between uploading and the solar constant?

Why would I have a limited air allowance?

What does a shovel have to do with anything?

>> I think we need to have a Dialog about this, you know 2-way
>> communication, where we talk about how this will affect each of us, and

> Why did you omit this crucial step with all the extinct species in
> the Anthropocene? Oh, because it was outside your control? Guess what:
> it's outside of ours, too. So learn to stop worrying, and love the
> solid state.

http://www.tubedepot.com/sw-ts-005.html

So super fast, if not super-intelligent uploaded minds will wipe us all out because, collectively, they are intellectually equivalent to a slime mold?

>> what actions might be necessary to preserve our rights and values. A 130
>> page treatise (which I read, cover to cover) that goes over exactly how
>> you plan to upload everyone including me and my cat does not count as a
>> dialog.

> How do you feel about death?

Death sux.

> Has your mortality ever offered you a dialog, and a compromise, perhaps?

How about this compromise:  You go upload and leave me alone -- forever.

What other compromise do you suggest?

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