[ExI] bitcoins

[Eugen Leitl]

On Mon, Apr 08, 2013 at 10:50:18AM -0700, frank mcelligott wrote:

> But, bitcoins, well that is something I have an opinion  "bigtime", because
> I own gold as a hedge against  either the euro or the dollar or japan yen
> from falling  into the ocean. So when the gold miners stock price dropped
> over 35% since the first of the year I have had to make a decision, should I
> buy more or has the story of Gold as a hedge changed.  There have been small

The idea of a hedge is a return of (some) of your investment instead
of return on your investment. So mere 35% should not have an impact
either way, especially if you bought in before. You're not trying
to invest, you're trying to limit your losses.

> hints in the people conversations ,people who live and die stocks bonds and
> currencies, that gold maybe is being effective attacked  by bitcoins. If it

I don't think so. It's a tiny market, 1.5 GUSD at the moment, and
a lot less if the bubble pops.

> has gotten to this list ,well that's a case in point in it's favor, and now
> instead of maybe  people are saying not just gold but all the currencies of
> the world are under attack by this INTERNET whatever.  Whenever a Avalon

I call bullshit. The Internet is not a currency.

> mining computer lists for 1200 and is completely sold out in 2 hours, and
> then the same Avalon computer sells for 20K on eBay the next day, the canary
> in the coal mine just died. When the price goes from 100 to 180 in five days,
> that does get your attention. Here is just a fool's view. 

Mining has only be lucrative for bleeding edge folks, that is never
to come again, at least for BTC.
 
> I have been attacked and conquered  four times on the internet,  I have
> gotten letters from my BANK from AUTO PARTS  STORES from my HORSE Racing
> account and finally a Mag that I read monthy. All were attacked all have
> given up my information and all they have said we are sorry and we will do
> better next time. I have had geeks  I know , who lost money with Bitcoins in
> the early days2009 , not a allot, but going to zero hurts a great deal. I

You mean not lost, stolen, right?

> know that the CIA is trying to hire "bigtime"  Grads in computer security. I
> know that Black berry less than 2 years ago went down for two days. no phones
> no emails no internet connection. I know that the countries like china and
> others are attacking American computer systems looking for holes.  I know

No, every kiddie on every cybercorner attacks any computer system on the
Internet.

> that Amazon has moved warehouses not to pay taxes, only to have the new
> locations demand that they pay taxes when they set up shop. But all of that
> can be conquered,  That's not true.  Without the ability to Tax all
> government's fall.  And more important the internet is just a few trunk lines
> that can be ripped up with a common ordinary buzz saw.  

The Internet is a bunch of autonomous systems running open source 
protocols. Backhoes are only useful against invididual pieces of
infrastructure.
 
> All of us are already know that governments will take your gold, your
> house, your money in the bank, but they also  keep a lid on what would happen
> without them. Bitcoins will only work when the Government is ready to fall,

In terms of transferring money in realtime peer-to-peer, bitcoins have
been working fine since they had a measurable value. That has only
improved due to the network effect. As soon as most shopping carts
have BTC plugins, the situation can only get better.

> it would have worked in Russia in 1997 when the Gov't defaulted and the

Greenbacks worked fine in Russia, back then.

> rouble was used for toilet paper, but to you think China or the Europe, or
> Japan, or the US is going to allow that to happen. If it becomes a problem
> bitcoins, the buzz saw of gov't will eliminate it. If bitcoins do overcome I

You can't uncook an aquarium. The source is out there, and the infrastructure
is out there. Shutting down the exchanges and make BTC illegal in some
locations will only make a temporary dent in the long-term pattern.

> suggest you sell them and use the proceeds to purchase a glock 19 carry's a
> mag of 15 bullets, because you will need all them to protect you life.

On that Glock advice, may I recommend: http://www.oftwominds.com/blog.html
 
> Gold has a 2000 year history, Bitcoins as a unit of currency will fail only

As a hedge, Au is doign great. But if I want to wire you a few cents or
MUSD, in realtime, Bitcoin will deliver. I just tried to receive 3 kUSD
via PayPal, and the *pain*.... let's not go there.

> because the government's of this world rule the internet, and when it is

The Internet is an assembly of autonomous systems, running open source
protocols. You can run your own internet, should you have the cash.
It doesn't take all that much.

> threaten it will turn off the machine, if you think otherwise as the is
> always two sides to a trade buyer and seller, buy them bitcoins as you are in
> on the ground floor, and the sky is the limit. Are you a buyer or a seller at
> 180, what is your opinion:)

If I had any play money (I don't) I would buy on the way up and sell on
the way down (especially, if the bubble pattern holds), but tend to go 
for the long term.