[ExI] 23andme again
Michael LaTorra
mlatorra at gmail.com
Thu Jun 27 18:03:56 UTC 2013
Good advice, Spike. It got me to thinking about this equation:
DNA + 23andMe + NSA = WTF?!
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 11:43 AM, spike <spike at rainier66.com> wrote:
>
>
> STOP FUCKING! IMMEDIATELY!
>
> At least until you read this post please, all the way to the bottom, or if
> you are in a hurry, read only the last sentence which pretty much sums up
> the rest of it.
>
> >... On Behalf Of BillK
> Subject: Re: [ExI] 23andme again
>
> On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 4:07 PM, spike wrote:
> >>... I don't know what happens in those long-cold cases where the contact
> > occurred at a party, no commitments were made, the mother had several
> > similar-looking partners, so no one paid child support, then many
> > years later it becomes possible to determine which is the bio-father.
> > Can the offspring now sue retroactively for 18 yrs of child support?
> > This is legally unfamiliar territory.
> >
>
> >...Being the USA, probably the laws are different from state to state.
> >:)
>
> >...But generally, if there was no child support order made when the child
> was a minor then after 18 years old, it's too late...
>
> Thanks BillK. After I read your reply, it occurred to me that it wouldn't
> need to be 18 yrs later. To get DNA read, all it takes is a few cc of
> spit.
> Anyone could do this on a baby; even a babysitting grandmother could
> collect
> the sample without anyone knowing, since baby slobber is in plentiful
> supply. 23andMe doesn't know whose spit they are analyzing or who sent it.
> They do what software does: takes the sample, does the analysis, dumps the
> results onto a website where you have the option of revealing your identity
> or not. Only about a third of the users reveal their identity, and even
> then, you are not required to use the right one.
>
> >...The father cannot be liable for unpaid child support if no order was
> made and the child is now an adult...
>
> Ja, but what if the child is a newborn? With 18 yrs of potential child
> payments ahead of the bio-father? See the first line in this post please.
>
> >...Yes, I was afraid that at first you were only looking at the situation
> from the POV of problem-solving to help the young lady. There are three
> people involved, father, mother and child, all with rights to be
> considered...
>
> Ja. I have been working to master the software tools in 23andMe. It
> occurred to me that ANYONE could have done what I did. Once they get some
> skills with the many ancestry tools available, they don't need to be a
> genetic relative to figure out what I found. It helped to verify, since I
> had a huge clue, that the relationship to her had to be through her
> bio-father, and he has an oddball name. Later I found she was born in a
> very small town in a state where abortions are damn near impossible to get,
> so the puzzle pieces began to fall together easily.
>
> The lesson here is that if one copulates carelessly, there is a new threat.
> It used to be just herpes and AIDS. But now we have a SERIOUS threat,
> such
> as the sleazy sorority girl at that party has a mother who can figure out
> which of the frat brothers impregnated her drunken daughter, and she wants
> payments on that baby to begin forthwith.
>
> >...But the transparent society is approaching fast and laws and society
> >will have to try and adjust. BillK
> _______________________________________________
>
> BillK, I made a table of my 100 closest genetic matches. The first column
> indicates male or female, the second column indicates relationship. 2-4
> means second thru fourth cousin. All 100 are cousins. I used the code id
> to indicate if there is any identification, including just a first name.
> Reasoning: many of the women use their maiden names in this activity, even
> if they are happily married. Some of the participants think they are
> anonymizing themselves but are not. For instance, one guy nicknamed
> himself
> by what looked like three initials and a city name, for instance a nickname
> in the form of ejtashville (intentionally obfuscated.) He may have thought
> he was anonymous with that handle (which I obfuscated, it isn't really
> ejtashville). I googled on "ejtashville," found a guy with initials ejt
> from Ashville who mentions 23andMe on his otherwise uninformative facebook
> page. That took me less than 10 seconds to find him, along a photograph,
> with the names of his family members. I have half a mind to contact the
> guy
> and tell him if he wants to be anonymous, work harder at it.
>
> Note that 35 of the top 100 provided some form of ID. The other 2/3 gave
> nothing at all. You can contact them thru 23-mail, but you don't know who
> they are or anything about them. If they choose, they might communicate
> back with you thru 23-mail, but as far as I can tell, this is a rare form
> of
> secure communications from the outside world point of view. There is no
> way
> to trace it back to an individual person that I can see. 23andMe needs to
> know some kind of email @ to contact you when your results are ready, but
> you can set up a gmail account and use it only for that, or set up a
> bulletin board anonymously if you wish. 23andMe has no way of knowing who
> you are, even though they know the contents of your DNA and who you are
> related to.
>
> Note that 24 of the men provided some form of ID, as did 11 of the women.
> 65 provided no ID and no means of contacting other than thru 23-mail:
>
> 1 m 2-4
> 2 m 2-4
> 3 f 3-4 id
> 4 f 3-4 id
> 5 m 3-4
> 6 f 3-4
> 7 f 3-4
> 8 m 3-4
> 9 f 3-4
> 10 f 3-4
> 11 f 3-5 id
> 12 f 3-5 id
> 13 f 3-5
> 14 m 3-5 id
> 15 f 3-5 id
> 16 m 3-5 id
> 17 f 3-5
> 18 m 3-5 id
> 19 f 3-5
> 20 f 3-5
> 21 m 3-5 id
> 22 m 3-5 id
> 23 m 3-5
> 24 m 3-5
> 25 m 3-5 id
> 26 m 3-5
> 27 m 3-5
> 28 f 3-5 id
> 29 m 3-5
> 30 f 3-5
> 31 m 3-5 id
> 32 m 3-5 id
> 33 f 3-5
> 34 f 3-5
> 35 m 3-5 id
> 36 f 3-5
> 37 f 3-5
> 38 f 3-5 id
> 39 m 3-5 id
> 40 f 3-5
> 41 m 3-5 id
> 42 m 3-5
> 43 f 3-6
> 44 m 3-6 id
> 45 m 3-6
> 46 m 3-6
> 47 m 3-6 id
> 48 m 3-6
> 49 f 3-6
> 50 f 3-6
> 51 m 3-6 id
> 52 m 3-6
> 53 m 3-6
> 54 m 3-6
> 55 f 3-6
> 56 f 3-6
> 57 f 3-6
> 58 m 3-6
> 59 f 3-6
> 60 m 3-6 id
> 61 m 3-6
> 62 f 3-6
> 63 f 3-6
> 64 f 3-6
> 65 m 3-6 id
> 66 m 3-6 id
> 67 m 3-6 id
> 68 m 3-6 id
> 69 m 3-6
> 70 f 3-6 id
> 71 m 3-6 id
> 72 f 3-6 id
> 73 m 3-6
> 74 f 3-6
> 75 f 3-6
> 76 f 3-6
> 77 f 3-6
> 78 m 3-6 id
> 79 m 3-6
> 80 f 3-6
> 81 m 3-6
> 82 m 3-6
> 83 f 3-6
> 84 m 3-6 id
> 85 m 3-6
> 86 f 3-6
> 87 m 3-6
> 88 f 3-6
> 89 m 3-6 id
> 90 m 3-6 id
> 91 m 3-6
> 92 m 3-6
> 93 m 3-6
> 94 f 3-6
> 95 f 3-6
> 96 f 3-6 id
> 97 m 3-6
> 98 f 3-6 id
> 99 m 3-6
> 100 m 3-6
>
> I have contacted about a dozen or so of my closest relatives and a few more
> down lower on the list whose family names match those I know from my own
> genealogy. I get replies from about half. Some of those on this list
> might
> be babies, but not mine I can assure you.
>
> If anyone here gets anything out of this post, it is that our hiding places
> are becoming as transparent as glass. Take heed if you are engaging in
> careless copulation: if your partner becomes impregnated by you, she can
> now
> find you easily enough if any of your even distant cousins have done
> 23andMe. Over 300k-proles have done 23andME, and the number grows by
> several hundred a day. I have 993 people on my DNA match list. Guys, see
> the first line of this post please. Otherwise take careful precautions,
> especially if you are on some wild fling in Vegas or on spring break in
> Daytona where you think no one knows you. This is your good old Uncle
> Spike
> talking here guys, and I am giving you some critically important advice. I
> mean it.
>
> Parting shot: I pondered BillK's comment and I still think the same as
> before. If you sire a pup, I feel as though that offspring's right to know
> who you are outweighs your right to hide. I will not reveal you
> intentionally, but your DNA will, even if it was a distant cousin who sent
> DNA to 23. Pay attention and walk circumspectly please.
>
> spike
>
>
>
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> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
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>
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