[ExI] BICEP2 and the Fermi paradox

John Clark johnkclark at gmail.com
Thu Apr 10 14:08:27 UTC 2014

On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 1:28 PM, spike <spike66 at att.net> wrote:

>>I think the Bible is as clear as it is morally corrupt on this subject.
>> Consider Revelation 20:10
>> "And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning
>> sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be
>> tormented day and night for ever and ever."
> >Ja, that's the devil, the beast and the false prophet, not the humans.

Who is the false prophet? I don't know of any profit in the Bible, false or
otherwise, that isn't a human. But it doesn't really matter, Lucifer is a
sentient being and torturing him for eternity means God is astronomically,
no INFINITELY more evil than the devil. Lucifer as depicted in the Bible
may have had his faults but he never did anything nearly as wicked as that;
I have even more faults but even I wouldn't torture anybody forever, not
even a unrepentant Hitler.

> Or this quotation from Jesus in Matthew 25:41:
>> "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for
>> the devil and his angels."
> Ja.  Angels are not humans.  The devil is superhuman.

Yes God may have originally created hell for the devil and his angels but
it clearly has lots of extra room for additional residents. And it's not
meaningful to say the people won't be alive when they're burning, this is
judgment day and everybody is already dead.

When the Jews got off the trains Dr. Mengele a divided them into 2 groups,
those on his right went to Nazi slave labor camps and those on his left
when immediately to the gas chambers, and in the above Jesus is talking
about something similar although far far more evil, judgment day. Those on
God's right get into heaven but as for those on God's left, well let me
give the entire quote:  "Then He will say to those on his left hand "Depart
from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil
and his angels""

> >> Or Mark 9:43
>> "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter
>> into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that
>> never shall be quenched"
> > Ja.  It sounds to me like going into hell is specifically differentiated
> and contrasted from the opposite, which is to enter into life.
> Bicep2

If the fires of hell killed you immediately, though you're dead before you
even enter it (yeah I know, but this is religion and its not supposed to
make any sense) then who cares if the fires of hell ever go out? Why would
it even be worth mentioning?

> The whole notion was popular as hell.


> >When we claim Christianity is morally bankrupt because it carries the
> notion of a god who tortures unbelievers eternally, we inadvertently
> promote those segments of Christianity which specifically deny this feature
> of mainstream Christianity,

That's OK, I think we should give the devil his due. The very core of
Christianity is inherently illogical but Christian franchises that don't
think their hero (God) would approve of torturing someone for eternity are
morally superior to other franchises that think that the ultimate moral
paragon would judge it to be a good idea to burn un-baptized children for a
infinite number of years.

 John K Clark

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