[ExI] google classroom, was: RE: Meta question

Sat Aug 20 20:54:59 UTC 2016

Result: a sharp motivated student can get from basic addition to calculus in
four years rather than the usual twelve, and once they do, they know
everything in between much better and can use it far more effectively.

spike

I have no comment on math education as I know nothing about it outside of
statistics.  You have seen it work and that is good enough for me.

Once we move outside of math, however, there are certain features to
education in which students may not be able to move as fast as they can in
math.  I refer you to Bloom's taxonomy, link below:

http://www.nwlink.com/~donclark/hrd/bloom.html

Look esp. at the cognitive realm and tell me that 12 year old students can
go all the way through those steps.  He cannot.  His brain is simply not
ready.

I found that I did not understand some concepts until I was out of grad
school - not fully.  Of course I was 26 and perhaps, as I had evinced
earlier, was a slow grower, not peaking until my 30s in some regards.

But, like everything else, the proof is in the pudding, and it may be that
the Google approach will work for areas outside of math.  I'd like to see
the research.

As for brain readiness, I note with some humor that psych 101 was not to be
taken by freshmen when I went to college and when I started teaching
college some ten years later that was still the case, though it changed in
the 70s.

In sum, I think psychology cannot be taught effectively the way you
describe:  watch a DVD for 20 minutes, do some practice work, and so on.

Now History - I never had a good teacher and think that maybe it can't be
taught any way at all.  I never made above a C in it except for Ancient
History (easier teacher probably, as it was not a popular course).  Ss
should be given a History DVD and tested later.  No need for a teacher!

bill w

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 2:45 PM, spike <spike66 at att.net> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> *From:* extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] *On
> Behalf Of *William Flynn Wallace
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 20, 2016 11:49 AM
> *To:* ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [ExI] google classroom, was: RE: Meta question
>
>
>
> Then please comment upon your comment above, in light of the modern
> education philosophy: a teacher should be a guide on the side rather than a
> sage on the stage.
>
>
>
> spike
>
>
>
> I would have quit and gone into marketing.  Example:  my chairman asked if
> I would like the department to buy some statistics videos by some
> well-known teacher.  …
>
> bill w
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ah OK BillW.  I understand now, and should have specified making
> observations from the students’ point of view rather than the teacher’s.
> If you know any fifth and sixth grade teachers, feel free to invite their
> views on this matter.
>
>
>
> There is a reason why I suggested viewing a KA video: the format of a ten
> minute lecture immediately followed by exercises on that topic.  I see this
> as a far more efficient and effective means of teaching many if not most
> topics than the classroom structure mandated by practicalities.  We have
> the students gather in a particular place and particular time at great
> expense and effort in many cases, give them an hour lecture, then off they
> go to do the homework.  But concentration spans are generally shorter than
> that and getting steadily shorter.  So, the Khan Academy format offers ten
> minute lectures interspersed with approximately twenty minutes of practice
> and a series of mastery assessments.  This really works.
>
>
>
> Another observation please, one I might share with Google, or Chris can
> pass it along if he wishes.
>
>
>
> We remember our own education, but allow me to focus please on an area I
> know better than the others: mathematics.
>
>
>
> Plenty of us here are engineers or software developers or some kind of
> math geek.  How many have ever been on a project where it was design by
> committee, but the committee was made up of individuals, egos, rivalries,
> they never went out and talked shop, or for whatever reason the members
> didn’t like each other much or didn’t work together well as a team?  Ja,
> most of us have at one point or another.  OK, how many were satisfied with
> the final product?  Ja, none of us were.  No one on that team was
> satisfied, and we could all imagine a better one.  The product lacks
> cohesiveness.  The pieces don’t work all that well together and we can all
> easily see wasted effort everywhere in that design.
>
>
>
> Traditional education using traditional methods is like that.  A
> mathematics curriculum is designed by a dozen or more different people, all
> with their own ideas of what is important, each with their own focus, each
> with a vague idea the student is shooting for college calculus perhaps, but
> the end product is really filled with gaps, over-writes, redos, wasted
> effort, wasted time, none of it really the fault of school or the
> curriculum designers.
>
>
>
> Now consider the alternative: one person who has a clear vision gets to
> design the entire curriculum from early grades up through college.  She
> knows the skills the student must master to get to the next point on the
> continuum.  The entire process is cohesive.
>
>
>
> Result: a sharp motivated student can get from basic addition to calculus
> in four years rather than the usual twelve, and once they do, they know
> everything in between much better and can use it far more effectively.
>
>
>
> spike
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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