[ExI] it's the yoga! was: RE: The Doomsday Clock

Dave Sill sparge at gmail.com
Sat Feb 10 15:49:59 UTC 2018

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:56 PM, Adrian Tymes <atymes at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 12:39 PM, Dave Sill <sparge at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >  "Stop inflicting damage" would entail not forcing native Americans to
> > relocate, not stealing their land, etc. "Leaving them alone" would entail
> > leaving them alone.  Stop meddling in their affairs. Stop telling them
> how
> > to live.
> Define "meddling in their affairs" and "telling them how to live".
> For instance, must they obey our laws when they are in our cities?

I'm not suggesting giving them something like diplomatic immunity so they
can freely break our laws. I think it's reasonable to allow them to run
their reservations according to their laws.

> What business is it of ours whether some practice is ancient or not?
> "Because it's ancient" is often used as a justification: if it was
> pre-existing, then the redress requested is to revert to that state.

Once again: no reparations.

> Leaving people alone should be the default. It shouldn't be a burden to
> > remember not to violate someone's rights. "Oh, crap, I forgot I'm not
> > supposed to steal my neighbor's stuff and rape his wife!."
> We are not today stealing from Native Americans, nor raping them, to a
> much larger degree* than we are stealing from and raping anyone else
> who we today call our citizens.  What treatment would you have us give
> them, that even needs bringing up as something we do not already
> extend to everyone?

Nothing in particular. I'm just not assuming that we'd never do that again.

> I'm not talking about giving native, or African Americans, or ...
> different
> > care. I'm talking about respecting other people's rights.
> And we are.  An argument could be made for dismantling reservations
> and otherwise undoing all laws that today give Native Americans
> special or preferential treatment, but that would seem to be the
> opposite of what you are calling for.

I don't see any justification for undoing deals made in the past that
"gave" a few spots of generally worthless land to the original inhabitants
of the country. Seems like we got the better end of the bargain.

If that is what you are calling for, then you should explicitly call
> for that.  Many people will read "leave them alone" as "exile them all
> to the reservations and forbid them from returning, so we no longer
> interact with them".

No, I'd think we should exile them to reservations. Those who want to
assimilate should be allowed to.

Look, I'm just one person with what I think are pretty standard libertarian
views of things. I'm not some grand poobah of native American relations. I
don't have a detailed treatise on what we should or shouldn't do. I just
know that we European Americans and our US government committed grievous
acts against the natives and we should ensure that that never happens again.

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