[ExI] very informative

William Flynn Wallace foozler83 at gmail.com
Sun Dec 27 23:22:03 UTC 2020

Skin color as insignificant is an ideal, certainly not a reality.  I am
still learning about the distinction between Leftists and liberals and the
conservatives.  Anything that goes beyond, contradicts the video, I would
like to see in a post.  Where are these Leftists, aside from the professors
in the Ivy League who are said to hate America and the European culture?
Democrats? Repubs?  I don't know who these guys are.  Help!

bill w

On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 5:06 PM F. C. Moulton via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Since I am trying to be more positive this month I will start off by
> saying something positive about the video: I did not notice any spelling
> errors.
> I was very disappointed in the content of the video however not
> surprised.  I am not going to waste my time going through the video point
> by point however I will offer one example from the beginning.  Near the
> beginning of the video is the assertion that the Liberal Position
> concerning "The color of a person's skin" is "Insignificant" about 44
> seconds in  the video.  Of course as a blanket statement this is misleading
> in large part because it does not provide context for that assertion.
> Consider the context of finding a job or renting an apartment, certainly
> many people apply for jobs or apartments and are not selected however if
> (all other things being equal) persons with dark skin are proportionately
> less likely to get the job or apartment then skin color is significant; in
> fact skin color has an observational significance which is necessary before
> one can even consider explanatory significance.
> Now I suspect that at this point there are fingers poised over keyboards
> about to explain how this is obviously not what was meant.  I am not going
> to say that I know the inner thoughts of the the person in the video nor
> will I say that the person is necessarily deliberately being dishonest
> however I will urge great caution before signing on too quickly to their
> rhetoric.  For example I would not be surprised if some are about ready to
> write something about the "Liberal Position" being that skin color is
> insignificant as relates to the "Rule of Law" and that "Rule of Law" is a
> "Good Thing" or something similar.  So consider the example of a fine for
> speeding with nothing in the law relating to skin color in relation to the
> amount of the fine. At first glance one might say skin color is not
> significant since it is not mentioned in the law however consider how it
> plays out for very poor people who might not have the money to pay the fine
> and might wind up with a suspended driving license and then get caught
> driving to work on a suspended license and are jailed and then lose their
> job whereas the relatively financially well of pull out their American
> Express card and problem goes away with much lower impact on their daily
> life.  Now if poor people are disproportionately of a particular skin color
> or ethnicity or religion or whatever would that be significant?  What about
> right dominant hand versus left dominant  hand? If some law does not
> mention dominant hand however if persons with a left dominant hand are
> getting fined more often in proportion to their level in the population
> would not you say the dominant hand might maybe perhaps be significant and
> at least worth considering.
> One reason I am taking the time to write this is that I have seen well
> meaning people fall into the trap of uncritically accepting "skin color is
> not significant" or "color blind to race" when they mean that they do their
> best not to prejudge someone based on skin color.  However things get
> sticky when these same well meaning people start to try to talk about some
> phenomena where skin color might be an important consideration and persons
> who do not want the conversation to take place or who want to steer it in a
> different direction say "Wait why are you bringing up skin color, did not
> we all agree that skin color was insignificant. Only racists want to talk
> about race all of the time" and the conversation either gets derailed or
> never gets started.  So to avoid this I strongly suggest we all developed
> nuanced and sophisticated views on race, gender, etc.  And as for the video
> I suggest those who initially thought it a good video put on your Popperian
> hats and look at every statement in the video and think of examples which
> contradict what is said as well as what is implied. Seriously.  This is an
> extropian email list.
> I wrote at the beginning of my remarks that I was disappointed in the
> content of the video but not surprised.  So to continue that thought I will
> note that I have not seen very many prageru.com videos however each that
> I have seen appears to be intellectually shallow.  So I will end these
> comments by noting that this video is consistent in that tradition.
> Fred
> On 12/27/2020 11:10 AM, spike jones via extropy-chat wrote:
> > *On Behalf Of *William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat
> *Subject:* [ExI] very informative
> https://www.prageru.com/video/left-or-liberal/
> >…I simply did not know.  When liberals have been attacked I have
> defended them.  But what I did not know was that it is not the
> ultraliberals who came up with the ideas I fought - it was the Leftists.
> >…Very clear differences.  I am most definitely a liberal and not a
> Leftist.  bill w
> Thanks for that billw.  What Prager describes as liberal is something I
> have always thought of as libertarian.  I agree with everything he said in
> that video.  You and I are liberals.
> spike
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