[ExI] Jimmy 'the Greek' Snyder

[William Flynn Wallace]

Ja.  If we didn’t have prisons, we would be in one hell of a jam.
Regarding psychiatric institutions being dismantled, most people do not
know why that was done.  But we do: lack of customers  spike

Now Spike let's not run off without data.  In 1973 the feds sued Alabama
(and George Wallace): insufficient everything at the state psychiatric and
the state mentally retarded institutions.  (Some patients had been in there
for decades and had nothing on their charts - no treatment of any kind.
Lureen Wallace was governor because George could not run again.  She came
to Tuscaloosa, visited the institutions and gave a TV interview while
crying and vowed to go back to Montgomery and get more money.  Since George
was really running the state you can guess how far she got.)  Result, a lot
of money was needed and the state didn't have it or wouldn't give it.  Also
at that time there were theories coming out that said that immersing a
person in their own community was the answer, not putting them in large,
inadequate institutions.  So community mental health was started.  One
benefit was that many of the patients could stay at home and get drugs and
therapy on an outpatient basis.  I would say overall that it has not worked
as intended but it did get a lot of economic pressure off fed and state
govs.

Yes, (as someone said) there are many psychiatric patients in local jails
and in prisons.  There is no other place to put them.  They get little if
any care.  Some have died from lack of drugs, and some prisoners too who
did not get their diabetes medicine or the like).  The theory must be:
just keep them off the streets (at about $30K a year in the prisons, so
cost effectiveness is very poor here).  AGain, to emphasize what I said in
an earlier email, they have to be picked up and often no one will do that,
or come up with bail in the case of misdeaneanors and felonies by the
mental patients.  Side effect:  many criminals have to be let out on
minimal bail because there is not room for them, even after putting many of
them together - like 4 men to a 2 person cell.  In 1973 Partlow, the MR
place, had 4K people and was built for 2K.

I do not know of a class of people in this country that are treated worse -
as in 3rd world worse.

Henry - jump in any time and update me and the group.  I have not kept up
with this issue.

bill w

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 5:27 PM Stathis Papaioannou via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, 7 Jun 2020 at 06:58, spike jones via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> *On Behalf
>> Of *SR Ballard via extropy-chat
>> *Subject:* Re: [ExI] Jimmy 'the Greek' Snyder
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >…Spike, when you go on that there is no “objective way” to determine
>> now, you act as if people will easily and willingly claim a gender their
>> delivery doctor wouldn’t expect…
>>
>>
>>
>> Delivery doctor?  I am pretty sure mine has died a long time ago.  In any
>> case, modern doctors will have no expectations.
>>
>>
>>
>> >…There are very real social and personal costs for being publicly trans.
>> It is not likely someone would put on such an emotionally difficult charade
>> for a sign on bonus…
>>
>>
>>
>> SR, in the world I am being thrust into, we are all trans.  We are told
>> that gender is a state of mind.  Well, OK, who am I to question that?  I
>> don’t know what goes on in other peoples’ minds.
>>
>>
>>
>> >…In a highly competitive, cut throat situation like high-level
>> athleticism I think it is very plausible, but gendered bonuses are illegal
>> in most Anglophone countries, rendering those pressure null…
>>
>>
>>
>> Ja.  I have no intentions of claiming to be female SR.
>>
>>
>>
>> >…Furthering that, a large percent of prisoners in the US are mentally
>> ill. They would be better served in a psychiatric institution that was
>> dismantled a while back…
>>
>>
>>
>> Ja.  If we didn’t have prisons, we would be in one hell of a jam.
>> Regarding psychiatric institutions being dismantled, most people do not
>> know why that was done.  But we do: lack of customers.
>>
>>
>>
>> >…Did you know in other countries that they have prisons without the
>> issues our prisons have?  SR Ballard
>>
>> SR, how can we know?  It could be that in other countries they can
>> legally incarcerate psychiatric patients and they do this out of sight.  We
>> wouldn’t know if they were doing that.  In the US, we cannot hold
>> psychiatric patients against their will unless they have committed a crime
>> and have been convicted.
>>
> That’s not true. Laws differ from state to state, but there are legal
> mechanisms to detain and treat people who present a serious risk to
> themselves or others due to mental illness. I don’t think there is anywhere
> in the world where someone with dementia or psychosis, for example, would
> be allowed to wander into traffic on the grounds that they have not been
> convicted of a crime.
>
>> --
> Stathis Papaioannou
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
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