[ExI] teachers

[Darin Sunley]

Phenomenal conscious experience is a thing /I/ definitely have. No idea
about any of you zombies, though.

Out of a norm of basic politeness I'm prepared to treat you as if you have
it, if you claim to, since y'all appear similar enough to me in most other
relevant ways for me to have empathy for you.

When something radically different than me, which I would not ordinarily be
inclined to be empathetic towards (a computer, or a particular distasteful
animal) claims to have it, the question becomes much more interesting.

In that context, the question of "Is it conscious?" probably reduces to
"Should I feel empathy toward it?" Like all other "should/ought" questions,
it is arguably impossible to rigorously derive an answer from any
collection of observed facts.

On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 10:35 AM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> Spike, it's just so evident that people are talking about consciousness
> etc. for a software program that still yields wrong answers.  Do you not
> think that uploading is an issue that is very far from relevant, given
> current technology?  I have no problem with people dreaming, of course.
> Talking of consciousness when no one is able to define it or tell when it
> is there.  I suppose I am overreacting to ideas that are very far from
> being implemented and for now are just being played with.   Maybe I should
> just retract the post.   bill w
>
> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 10:29 AM Gregory Jones <spike at rainier66.com>
> wrote:
>
>> ...>...height of wishful thinking...cart, horse inversion, gun jumping,
>> etc...
>>
>> Billw, you will need to offer a bit of evidence to back up that strong
>> statement.  You offered us an opinion only.  Granted it is one shared by
>> most of humanity.
>>
>> Regarding your question of asking ChatGPT to write in the style of a 12
>> yr old, it can.  It does a better job of writing in 12 yr old than a smart
>> 12 yr old.  Not as good as a dumb one, but they are working that.
>>
>> But do explain why you are so confident that uploading to immortality is
>> not rational please.  Note that I am not necessarily disagreeing.  But I
>> want to hear your reasoning.
>>
>> spike
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 8:20 AM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <
>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>>> It seems that many of us want AIs to be people:  conscious, with
>>> emotions and so forth.  I suggest that this stems from wanting uploading to
>>> work so we can be immortal and have all the same lives we have now.
>>>
>>> I suggest that this is the height of wishful thinking.  And putting the
>>> cart WAY before the horse.    Jumping the gun, etc. Not rational. bill w
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 10:08 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <
>>> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm currently a materialist and find many good points in scientism, so
>>>> if
>>>> I have a box or a robot, that convinces me in every aspect that it is
>>>> conscious
>>>> by acting as if it was conscious, that's conscious for me.
>>>>
>>>> I do not subscribe to unique qualia or "redness" experiences,
>>>> therefore, I
>>>> cannot see a problem with the good old turing.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Daniel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 24 Aug 2023, Gregory Jones via extropy-chat wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > BillW's question regarding the instructor's task of distinguishing
>>>> between a student and AI puts a final nail in the coffin of
>>>> > Turing's test.  Artificial intelligence is able create an illusion of
>>>> consciousness so convincing, we are still debating if it really
>>>> > is the real thing, all while failing to adequately define precisely
>>>> what we mean by "real."
>>>> > spike
>>>> >
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>>>>
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