[ExI] teachers

[Jason Resch]

On Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 2:21 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 29, 2023 at 12:58 AM efc--- via extropy-chat <
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>> Which interpretation do you subscribe to, or find most likely?
>>
>
> A version of superdeterminism.  The objections to it seem to be mostly of
> distaste, not any actual disproof other than via moral or subjective
> qualities.  (Such as, "Obviously we have free will, and superdeterminism
> says there's no free will," which has problems with both the claim of an
> undefined "free will" and that superdeterminism is necessarily opposed to
> it.)  These do not constitute actual disproof when it comes to objective
> reality.
>

You seem to be describing regular determinism here, not superdeterminism,
which is something quite different from determinism. MW is deterministic,
for example.



> It is possible there are actual scientific objections to it, but if so
> they've gotten lost in the noise.
>

The objection to superdeterminism, as I see it, is that it's not a
scientific theory. It says no matter how nature really is, nature is
conspiring to bring us to a false conclusion. Science cannot operate under
such conditions and any fantasy can be entertained under such a a belief,
like there being unicorns everywhere that disappear whenever we turn our
heads to see them or point a camera in their direction.


Jason


> As to the objection that it denies free will, agency, choice, et al - that
> is only true if one assumes that the agent making decisions must
> necessarily be fully contained in the superdetermined universe.  "Souls"
> are supernatural and unfalsifiable, beyond the realm of science - but if
> the notion is being brought in as an objection anyway, then it suffices to
> construct a possible model wherein both superdeterminism and choices made
> by individuals exist at the same time in the same universe.  There exist
> such models, therefore the objection about free will does not preclude
> superdeterminism, even aside from the supernatural angle.
>
_______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/attachments/20230829/ebe4a945/attachment.htm>