[ExI] [Extropolis] New project for EFF (maybe)

[Kelly Anderson]

When I worked at a large company with a smaller acquired software
division, I was encouraged to discontinue writing test driven code
because it "worked too well" and that charging for customer service to
keep their crappy code up and working was half of their revenue. In
the end, my supervisor removed all of my tests and merged all my code
into one untestable blob over a weekend. I was rather livid because I
was proud of the fact that I was creating relatively bug free code. I
didn't work there terribly long after that.

-Kelly

On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 4:30 PM Adrian Tymes via extropy-chat
<extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
> I am not aware of any industry, save certain government institutions where ethics (or lack thereof) demonstrably impacts performance, where there is both a large labor force and enough workers who care about ethics to meaningfully enforce ethics.
>
> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 3:26 PM Keith Henson via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>>
>> What I am proposing here is a cultural shift.
>>
>> I suspect programmers feel guilty about writing code to make things fail.
>>
>> If a substantial number of them said this is unethical and we won't do
>> it, chances are the companies would quit asking.
>>
>> Companies are concerned about their reputation and being known as a
>> company that forces programmers to do something considered unethical
>> is not going to enhance their reputation.
>>
>> It's a long shot I know, but might be worth talking up.
>>
>> Keith
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:45 PM efc via extropolis
>> <extropolis at googlegroups.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Excellent idea Keith.
>> >
>> > Having a masters degree in philosophy, I'm a bit "damaged" so I always
>> > make it a point to try and have a discussion with my students about the
>> > ethics of technology and make them think about the world and future they
>> > want to help shape through their technical work in the future.
>> >
>> > I think this is a conversation that should start early, and that
>> > technologists should have often, but it is not enough.
>> >
>> > As long as you are dependent on a salary, and the ask seems relatively
>> > small and insignificant, it is all too easy to choose the path of least
>> > resistance and then justify it to yourself or just forget about it.
>> >
>> > Perhaps with some kind of organization helping out in some way, it might
>> > make that choice a little bit easier on individuals who feel that they
>> > have no other choice due to financial reasons.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Daniel
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, 14 Dec 2023, Keith Henson wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi Cindy, John
>> > >
>> > > My response to an article on slashdot about hackers that removed the
>> > > code that bricked trains.
>> > >
>> > > If there were social support, programmers could just refuse on ethical
>> > > grounds to write the code that bricks a train or anything else.
>> > >
>> > > Long ago when I was faced with something similar, I was just fired.
>> > > If there was an organization that made such behavior public in a way
>> > > that seriously hurt the reputation of a company, they might think
>> > > twice about such abuse.
>> > >
>> > > Would we have to start a new organization for programmers or is there
>> > > an existing one that could take on this function?  The EFF comes to
>> > > mind, but open to other suggestions.  I will ask the EFF if they would
>> > > consider this.
>> > >
>> > > Keith
>> > >
>> > > Keith
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > --
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