[ExI] chatbots and marketing: was RE: India and the periodic table

[efc at swisscows.email]

What I would be interested in is a "control" experiment where a chinese 
man would go through the same trip as my acquaintance. I suspect that he 
would be able to better "parry" the behaviour experienced and get more 
done. But I'm just speculating.

Best regards,
Daniel


On Fri, 9 Jun 2023, William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat wrote:

> What you say about the typical Chinese is reported to be true of Central and South America.  Shoddy workmanship, laziness. can't get
> phone calls returned, every clerk a bureaucrat you have to grease the palm of, nightmares trying to get things imported, and many
> more.  I think the Chinese have done some wonderful things, but the basic people are just people, as everywhere.  Consistently the US
> is rated the top country for productive work.  Also, fewer vacation times, less time off for various reasons.   bill w
> 
> On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 3:27 PM efc--- via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>
>       On Fri, 9 Jun 2023, spike jones via extropy-chat wrote:
>
>       > China would really really like to convert North America and Europe into a food-supplying raw-materials supplying slave
>       labor
>       > continents, much the way the west uses Africa now.  If China Inc controls the ability to automate nearly everything
>       currently done in
>       > offices today, that scenario is realistic.
>
>       I'm not so sure. When it comes to china, there are a couple of things
>       which always make me doubt their "power" and think that there will be
>       dramatic changes there eventually.
>
>       1. An acquaintance moved to china many years ago to work as an
>       architect. His general view after working there for a year was that:
>
>       1.1. Chinese are generally fairly incompetent.
>       1.2. Do not have the ability to think critically or object.
>       1.3. Love to cheat the system, not work at work etc.
>
>       It was a nightmare for him to try and get things done. He also travelled
>       around the country extensively and told me about
>
>       1.4. The enormous ghost cities and wasted resources due to incompetent
>       political decisions suffering from 1.2. and 1.3.
>
>       2. Another acquaintance worked extensively with Huawei and his
>       experience was pretty similar to 1. Why has Huawei become so successful?
>       His theory is a combination of 1 million monkeys eventually writing a
>       Shakespeare play _and_ a private company receiving the backing of a
>       state in the form of money and intelligence, so not successful on its
>       own.
>
>       3. I read somewhere (and keep in mind that I do not know if this is true
>       or just a rumour) that the chinese parliament has as many billionaires
>       in USD as the US parliament has millionaires.
>
>       Add to that that people in the country side, like the country side of russia,
>       live a medieval lifestyle. Combine that, the wealth and corruption of
>       the people in power, and perhaps there will be a revolution or a big
>       crash, which will in turn, lead to a revolution.
>
>       So yes, china might be a threat today, but I think they, like russia,
>       look way more scary from the outside, than from the inside.
>
>       Best regards,
>       Daniel
> 
>
>       >
>       >  
>       >
>       > spike
>       >
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>       >
>       > On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 12:16 PM spike jones via extropy-chat <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:
>       >
>       >        
>       >
>       >        
>       >
>       >       From: extropy-chat <extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org> On Behalf Of William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat
>       >       Sent: Friday, 9 June, 2023 9:39 AM
>       >       To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
>       >       Cc: William Flynn Wallace <foozler83 at gmail.com>
>       >       Subject: Re: [ExI] chatbots and marketing: was RE: India and the periodic table
>       >
>       >  
>       >
>       > Taiwan has the best, eh Spike?  Well, what the Hell happened to industrial espionage?  Enormous dollars are at stake
>       and there
>       > are still secrets?  Get a spy.  Pay him 50 million dollars - cheap at that price.  Why take over a country?   (also, a
>       > tetrabyte would be part of a fish)  
>       >
>       >  
>       >
>       > bill w
>       >
>       >  
>       >
>       >  
>       >
>       > Industrial espionage steals the intellectual property in the factory, but does not steal the actual factory.  Taiwan
>       has the
>       > best and most electronic manufacturing on the scale necessary to have the best and fastest GPUs.  America knows *how*
>       to design
>       > those GPUs and how to build the factories, but the right combination of tax structure and talent base came together in
>       Taiwan,
>       > which made that country ground zero for the manufacture of the most advanced computer chips in the world.
>       >
>       >  
>       >
>       > But since you ask, I propose a thought experiment sir.
>       >
>       >  
>       >
>       > Picture in your mind a working person in the USA, or Europe.  OK, do you have your mental image?  Did you picture a guy
>       in an
>       > office, perhaps in front of a computer most of the day?  Plenty of us made our living or still make our living that
>       way.
>       >
>       >  
>       >
>       > That was part 1, now part 2, consider a worker on the continent of Africa, working.  Did you picture a guy grubbing
>       around
>       > collecting lithium ore in horrific conditions to satisfy the insatiable appetite in foreign lands for the stuff?
>       >
>       >  
>       >
>       > If you did, then, good for you.  You are aware of where we are in human history: the west is charging ahead with clean
>       and
>       > green technologies, by compelling people in less fortunate parts of the world to grub around, dig up their land, gather
>       the
>       > lithium and other minerals we need to purr around in our clean green cars.
>       >
>       >  
>       >
>       > OK then, part 3 of the experiment if you are still reading down this far.
>       >
>       >  
>       >
>       > Picture specialized chatbots which are trained on something very specific, such as the complete US tax code.  Printed
>       out and
>       > bound into books, that tax code on a shelf spans the left elbow to the right wing tip on a typical tall man, so can
>       estimate
>       > about 1 to 1.5 meters of book, perhaps two billion words.  A chatbot could read all that, and become a soft
>       accountant.  It
>       > could be a five dollar alternative to hiring an accounting form.  It might be able to train the soft accountant to read
>       all
>       > your receipts, figure out what is deductible, fill out your tax return.  If so, the tax accounting business is headed
>       out the
>       > door, and if that can be done with specialized chatbots, so can nearly everything done currently in an office in front
>       of a
>       > computer in part 1 of your thought experiment.
>       >
>       >  
>       >
>       > Conclusion: the guy who owns the capacity to manufacture the hardware to make those bots owns the planet.
>       >
>       >  
>       >
>       > spike
>       >
>       >  
>       >
>       >  
>       >
>       >  
>       >
>       >  
>       >
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