[ExI] Bender's Octopus (re: LLMs like ChatGPT)

Fri Mar 24 08:29:19 UTC 2023

This is an interesting experiment, but I want to go behind it and ask you
to help me thinkingabout how 2 entities could still communicate without
pointing to any object at all. Imagine 2 beings from other dimension want
to communicate and they don't even have shared physics laws. How would you
go about it?

Establishing communication between two entities without shared physical
referents or even shared physics laws would indeed be a challenging task.
However, here are some strategies that could potentially facilitate
communication in such a scenario:

   1.

   Identify commonalities: Begin by exploring any possible shared
   experiences, concepts, or processes that might exist between the two
   entities, even if they are abstract or based on different underlying
   principles. For instance, both entities might experience time, change, or
   some form of interaction within their respective dimensions.
   2.

   Establish a shared communication system: Without any common language or
   means of communication, the entities would need to develop a shared
   communication system from scratch. This could involve creating symbols,
   patterns, or sequences that both entities can recognize and interpret. This
   system should be adaptable and able to evolve as the entities learn more
   about each other.
   3.

   Use analogies and abstractions: One approach to bridge the gap between
   different dimensions and experiences is to use analogies and abstractions.
   The entities could attempt to describe their experiences or concepts by
   making comparisons to similar or related ideas within the other entity's
   understanding. This process would likely require a great deal of
   creativity, patience, and trial and error.
   4.

   Develop a shared understanding through iterative feedback: As the
   entities communicate, they should provide feedback to each other to refine
   their understanding and improve the clarity of their communication. This
   iterative process would help them gradually develop a shared understanding
   and potentially uncover new insights about their respective dimensions.
   5.

   Create a shared "mental model": As the entities continue to communicate,
   they could work towards developing a shared "mental model" that
   incorporates both of their experiences and understandings. This model would
   serve as a common reference point for communication, allowing the entities
   to relate their experiences and concepts to each other more effectively.

It is essential to recognize that establishing communication between
entities with no shared physical referents and different physics laws would
be a complex and time-consuming process. Success would likely depend on the
entities' creativity, adaptability, and willingness to learn from each
other.
[image: Giovanni Santostasi]
Ok give me a concrete example. Let's create the above scenario and show me
a simple exchange between the two entities let'scall them A and B. How A
would start and B respond?

Let's imagine that entities A and B are from different dimensions with no
shared physical referents or common physics laws. They have discovered a
way to send simple binary signals to each other. We will assume that both A
and B are intelligent and capable of learning from their interactions.

A simple exchange between A and B could begin as follows:

   1.

   A sends a basic repeating pattern to B, like "1010101010." This pattern
   is intended to convey that A is attempting to communicate and to establish
   some common ground.
   2.

   B recognizes the repeating pattern and responds with a similar pattern,
   such as "1100110011," to acknowledge the communication attempt and show
   that it is also capable of sending and receiving signals.
   3.

   A and B begin to exchange more complex patterns to explore each other's
   understanding and capabilities. For example, A sends "100100100100," and B
   responds with "111000111000," indicating that it understands the concept of
   repetition and can create its own patterns based on that concept.
   4.

   A now sends a sequence of increasing lengths, like "10," "1000," and
   "100000." This sequence could represent an attempt to convey the concept of
   progression or growth.
   5.

   B responds with its own sequence of increasing lengths, such as "110,"
   "111000," and "111111000000," to demonstrate that it also understands the
   concept of progression.

At this stage, A and B have established a basic understanding of each
other's ability to recognize patterns, repetition, and progression. They
have also demonstrated a willingness to engage in communication and learn
from each other. As their interactions continue, they would likely develop
more complex patterns and sequences, gradually building a shared
understanding and communication system.

On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 1:12 AM Stuart LaForge via extropy-chat <
extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org> wrote:

>
> Quoting Gordon Swobe <gordon.swobe at gmail.com>:
>
> > Bender's point is not that ChatGBT is incapable of generating sensible
> > sentences about sticks and bears. It is that these LLMs don't know the
> > meanings of any words whatsoever. Confronted with a word it has never
> seen,
> > it must do a statistical analysis to try to find probable next words,
> never
> > knowing what any of them mean.
>
>
> You and Bender seem to making a big deal about the referential meaning
> of words as if they were some sacred goal-keepers of consciousness.
> But really the meaning of words are quite arbitrary and determined by
> the people who use them. Thus the referential meanings of words evolve
> and change over time and come to refer to different things. Take the
> word "terrific" for example. At one time, its referent was something
> terrible cognate to horrific referring to something horrible. These
> days however, its referent is something great or wonderful.
>
> Or how the meaning of liberal evolved in the U.S. from someone who
> acts like a free person in a free market to someone who wants big
> government, high taxes, and welfare programs. Or take for example when
> a kid on the street tells you, "Your drip is fresh." The meanings of
> words shift, change, and evolve over time and sometimes even define
> social groups. Consciousness is the ability to communicate despite the
> shifting arbitrary meaning of words, not because of the meaning of
> words having some true absolute referential meaning.
>
> Stuart LaForge
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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