[extropy-chat] ENOUGH already

[Matus]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org [mailto:extropy-chat-
> bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Paul Grant
>
> Charlie Stross said:
> 
> > I'd like to add to that: war seems to me to be about as
anti-extropic
> > as you can get. The triumph of brute force over enlightenment,
> > destruction, death and despair on a massive scale. An excuse for the
> > enemies of freedom on every side to chip away at civil rights. The
> > ascendency of dehumanization is the *opposite* of transhumanism.
> 
> I would like to disagree with that.  War is neither intrinsically
> extropic nor anti-extropic.  If one of the parties at war is less
> extropic, and it wins, then war is anti-extropic.
> 
> - careful their kimo sabe, thats a dangerous line your walking;
> put another way, if you will grant me, a small society that is
> "extropic".. which by definition, leads a less "extropic" society
> comprised of the majority.  So when does the bloody revolution start,
> comrade? :)  Direct consequence of your statements, you understand.
> 
> As u can see, I have to agree with Charlie :)
> 

I think you should refer to the rest of the discussion.  Are you
claiming, absolutely, that not only have all wars that have ever
occurred but all wars that could possibly occur are definitely
anti-extropic?  Quite a strong assertion.  This of course requires you
to define extropic exactly, and war exactly.  My point, as was evident
from the discussion was that whether war is extropic is a much more
complicated question.  In that discussion Charlie even presented an
example of overthrowing the US government to get rid of the drug laws.  

My example of a less extropic government being overthrown by a more
extropic one was merely a quick example, it was not meant to imply that
ANY more extropic government had the right to overthrow any less
extropic one no matter the cost in lives or property.  That is of course
ridiculous.  A more reasonable question (if one can call such questions
reasonable) would be how many lives are worth an increase in extropy,
and how much of an increase?  Debates of that sort have been tossed
around on this list all ready. 

I also noted in that discussion that freedoms are not directly
synonymous with extropy, as the freedom to sit on ones ass all day and
watch TV isn't gonna bring about a singularity, nor would being stoned,
drunk, or visiting strip clubs all day, nor chattering on discussion
board for that matter.  In fact a paternalistic big brother esque
society where each person was assigned an area of technological pursuit
and had immortality and extropianism drilled into their head from the
time they were children would probably be the most 'extropic' yet it
would not be very free.

Michael Dickey