[extropy-chat] Re: Public Schools

[Technotranscendence]

On Monday, January 19, 2004 12:20 PM Kevin Freels
kevinfreels at hotmail.com wrote:
>> Others pay -- including those who don't
>> have children and those whose children
>> are either past school age or who do
>> not use public schools -- for schools as
>> well, so this lowers the costs of
>> parenting when the parents use public
>> schools.
>
> Let's not forget that even those who have
> no children were once children themselves
> and most likely benefited from the school
> system.

First, you don't know for every last person.  Someone who is
homeschooled or went to private school, e.g., would not fit in the
above.  Someone who was not schooled at all -- as some foreigners would
be in the US and some other marginal people -- would also not have
benefited.

Second, it's questionable what the benefit is, especially since
schooling where I live is mandatory.  Under such circumstances, one
can't be forced to repay for a "benefit" one was forced to receive.  The
economics of such forced benefits, too, often makes them less than
optimal.  Why?  Any compulsory system is bound to decouple costs and
benefits -- and this has an impact on quality.  Those forced to use such
a system are, after all, forced to make a choice they wouldn't
otherwise, so it's already suboptimal -- at least, ex ante.

Third, let me go along with you and say it is a benefit -- for the
student.  Then that benefit should be somewhat quantifiable.  After a
certain period, one would have to say, "That individual paid back for
what he got out of the system and does owe anymore," no?  Or is this to
be an unlimited claim on every person?

> Also, it is important to realize the benefit
> of having an "educated" populations (I use
> the word educated VERY loosely here).

Clarify that benefit and what you mean exactly by education.  In my
experience, homeschooled and privately schooled children tend to be much
smarter, less violent, and more civilized than public school children.
I don't know if anyone's done a study.  Some might say that's because
public schools have to take everyone, BUT my experience is with most
public school children I've been around -- not necessary the dregs and
delinquents.  Even just on that level, I noticed marked differences.  (I
admit, I've only met a few homeschooled children, so my "sample" is much
smaller and probably not as telling.)

> It is a shame that more parents simply
> don't get even slightly involved in their
> children's education.

It's a shame so many people have children who do not want to take proper
care of them but look for the state to do that.

> The resource is there, paid for by everyone,
> and yet many parents just don't seem to give
> a damn! Most of them are like this because
> of how their parents were. It's a vicious
> cycle of stupidity!

Continuing mandatory public education only reinforces the cycle.

> Sorry for the slight venting. This touches
> rather close to home. My children go to a
> public school. They are from a previous
> marriage and she had custody. They are
> 8 and 7 yr old girls. Their mother is a
> meth dealer and could hardly pay attention.
> The girls were getting D's and F's in
> science and math (N's for the yoiunger
> girl). They went to schools in crappy clothes
> with holes in them even though I paid $207
> per WEEK in child support!

I can understand your frustration, but this seems to more a problem with
child custody laws than anything else.

> She was finally busted for Meth in November
> with the kids in the house. I finally received
> custody of the girls. They were such a mess!
> Now they have never been happier. Their
> counselor called me the other day and
> informed me that if they just keep doing what
> they have been doing since they moved here,
> they will get A's in every subject! All they
> needed was a little homework help, and
> some concern for their education. I think the
> real difference is that I care. Nothing more.
> Mom didn't care, so why should they? They
> prefer living here and Dad cares about their
> education, so they do too!

Makes sense to me.

> Anyways, I really don;t think our educational
> system is all that bad. Yes, it could be better,
> but it can only be as good as the people that
> are in it.  I don't know the number, but I would
> assume that hundreds of thousands are
> involved in the educational system from the
> administrative level down. The odds are that
> a portion of these people are idiots.( There
> must be a lot of idiots in the public school
> system.) This would be offset if parents simply
> gave a shit about their kids.

It would help if those of us who don't like or want the public education
system weren't forced to pay for it or send our children to it.  The
problem is not that the system is run by evil inhuman monsters.  The
problem is instead that the system rests on compulsion both for funding
and for enrollment.  Remove the compulsion is all I ask...

Cheers!

Dan
  See "The Hills of Rendome" at:
http://uweb.superlink.net/neptune/Rendome.html