[extropy-chat] A minor point on the history of Matrioshka Brains

[Robert J. Bradbury]

Gennady,

Your comments with respect to Matrioshka Brains prompted some thoughts
on my part that I thought should be shared for historical significance.

The concept of Matrioshka Brains arose out of my desire to explore
the limits of computing.  Anders Sandberg was at the same time
(in 1997-99) exploring the concepts as well.  The concept of a
mega-brain (aka Jupiter Brain) was generated much earlier on the
private Extropians list, most probably by Perry Metzger.
I have documented this [1].  So the idea was not new.

Also, the limits have been subsequently worked on by a number
of people which I try to record in [2].

But in any case the purpose of this message is the history.
Feynman did his "Plenty of Room at the Bottom" lecture in
December 29th, 1959.  Dyson's Search paper that gave rise
to the concept of "Dyson Sphere's" (which were promoted
in one or more Star Trek episodes) was published in Science
on June 3, 1960.  I do not know if Dyson was aware of
Feynman's lecture at the time he wrote his paper -- though
I believe they were quite well connected.

The concept (and name) "Matrioshka Brains" arose because
I believe I had read a document which discussed the
importance of providing a good name for people to hold
in their minds, specifically "Black Holes" and that
provoked my thinking.

Though Feynman and Dyson did not at the time merge their
technological perspectives my thinking was facilitated
by both Drexler (who really looked at nano-biological
systems if you read his papers carefully) and my education
in microbiology where the concept of one organism living
off what another organism produces was explored.

Net result a multi-level Dyson shell constructed at the
physical engineering limits -- aka a Matrioshka Brain.

What is of interest from a historical perspective is that
Dyson *never* stated in his original paper that his construct
should be a "sphere" and in response to letters to Science he
clearly stated "The form of "biosphere" which I envisaged consists
of a loose collection or swarm of objects traveling on independent
orbits around the star." However there were both U.S. scientists
as well as Russian scientists who misunderstood what he proposed
a "sphere".  And as a result both TV/Movie misconstructions have
been presented and a number of refutations have been written.

So Dyson's comments dictate the architecture of the Matrioshka Brain
extended to include Feynman's and Drexler's insights.

Now with regard to the Russian experience.  Of course I had extensive
Russian experience before I began the MBrain research.  But this
required extending myself because I wanted to get every last
piece of commentary that the Russian perspective could provide.
(And it wasn't like the Russians during the cold war were likely
to ignore comments by Dyson given his involvement in atomic
physics...)

So I and my extremely capable Russian assistant went off to the
Lenin Library.  I am no stranger to "big".  I have lived in
New York.  I have been to the NY public library.  I have been
to the top one of the WTC towers and had diner at Windows
on the World.  I have even hiked across the Grand Canyon.
Big isn't a problem.

The Lenin Library is a temple.  It goes far beyond Notre Dame
or St. Peters (both of which I have visited).  It is a temple
to knowledge (and as such I would place it on the top most
half dozen sites on the planet that extropians should wish
to preserve).

Bottom line (because this post is getting a somewhat long).
Gennady,
a) there is an interesting evolution of the concept of
   Matrioshka Brains;
b) papers by various engineers (U.S. and Soviet) got the
   details right and I can provide these references;
c) Russia (or the S.U.) has made a significant investment in
   the accumulation and preservation of information --It
   should be hoped that it will not be lost and that
   it should be distributed.

My few 2-cents worth.
Robert


1. http://www.aeiveos.com/~bradbury/JupiterBrains/
2. http://www.aeiveos.com/~bradbury/MatrioshkaBrains/