[extropy-chat] Qualia Bet

Marc Geddes marc.geddes at gmail.com
Fri Dec 9 04:38:25 UTC 2005


>I talked about a network of causation of brain states, but did not
require spatial extensions, forces, motions, or objects.

The way I interpret what you meant by 'causation of brain states' is that
you meant the physical actions of the components making up the brain.  These
are neurons, neurotransmitters, electrochemical signals etc right?  And
these things ultimately decompose to objects with spatial extensions, forces
and motions i.e. when precisely describing brain actions using the laws of
physics you ultimately end up with things located in space and the motions
and forces associated with these things no?



>Numbers, and most math objects, are patterns, i.e., abstractions.  Things
that
sit in our networks of causation have many things in common, and we
can describe those common features with patterns.  The patterns
themselves, as opposed to their instances, do not as far as we know
separately sit in our network of causation, though brain states that
describe and think about those patterns do.

As you admit:  'The patterns *themselves*, as opposed to their instances, do
not as far as we know separately sit in our network of causation'.  So the
question arises, where do these *patterns* exist?  If you agree that the
*patterns* are real and that they do not in fact directly sit in the network
causation, then you've conceded that there can exist real entities which are
not directly sitting in the network of physical causation.  Qualia could be
just such entities.



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screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder's eye on
the last day"

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