[extropy-chat] Re: [Ethics] In defense of moral standards

[Giu1i0 Pri5c0]

Well, I can evaluate, judge, compare, communicate any of the moral
values I hold dear by trying to relate them to, and possibly derive
them from, basic values that I choose to hold as fundamental. In my
case, and I believe also for many others on this list, fundamental
values are related to those of classical humanism, e.g. that actual
human beings are more important than abstract ideas, and to those
which we are slowly and painfully trying to develop in transhumanist
communities, e.g. I try to define "human" in terms of thoughts and
feelings rather than genome.
As you see, not only I am not against morality, but also my moral
values are probably quite similar to yours.
I only object to trying to mix morality with unproven and maybe
unprovable metaphisical concepts.
Examples: most religions try to derive morality from the teachings of
one or another god. But what happens then to morality when sciences
forces us to conclude that there are no real basis for believing in
that god? Do we stop following morality? I hope not, and therefore
think that morality should be based on something more solid than
metaphysics.
Deriving morality from fundamental science and logic? Sorry Marc I can
see that you are trying hard, but to me the idea itself is pure
nonsense in logic and scientific terms. Of course I may be wrong and
you are always welcome to try persuading me, but you have not
persuaded me so far. I still think "ought" and "is" belong to
different realms that do not overlap.
So, I join moral relativists in trying to base morality on social
consensus achieved through a painful and erratic trial and error
process.
G.

On 5/5/05, Jef Allbright <jef at jefallbright.net> wrote:
> Giu1i0 Pri5c0 wrote:
> 
> >Morality has just nothing to do with the Big Bang, the laws of mathematics and
> >logic, the laws of physics, or anything that I can consider really
> >fundamental in the universe as it is presently understood by science.
> >
> >
> Giulio -
> 
> Then how can you possibly evaluate, judge, compare, communicate any of
> the moral values you hold dear?
> 
> Do you also consider yourself to operate outside the physical realm?
> 
> I've been reading and trying to give your words the benefit of the
> doubt, but this is so blatant I just have to ask whether you really mean
> what you seem to be saying.
> 
> - Jef
> 
>