[extropy-chat] Qualia Bet.

[Brent Allsop]

gts:

> > Yes, I think we are very much in agreement with our philosophies.
> >
> > But please don't say phenomenal properties are outside of "the sum of
> all
> > possible scientific knowledge" as this is clearly not true.
> 
> I am referring to objective intellectual knowledge, not applied science or
> technology.

Hmmmm, then why did you say: "the sum of all possible scientific knowledge"?

And once we can share qualia via effing and know reliably and perfectly
(well, for all practical purposes anyway) of their causal physical
correlates and so on - will this not be considered "objective" knowledge?  I
like to think so.  Subjective is something that can't be shared - isn't it?

> > It's just that phenomenal properties cannot be adequately represented or
> > communicated via abstract system based purely on causal properties.
> 
> Right, we don't disagree.
> 
> You've been wrongly criticized for saying these properties are non-causal.

Yes, and looking back I see some of the things I've said that have lead to
this.  I hope I've learned my lesson.

> What you really mean is that direct knowledge of phenomenal properties
> (the actual first-hand experience of qualia) cannot be obtained via
> abstract science about causes and effects.

Yes, this is a great way of putting it.  I'll have to try to learn from your
example and use more of these words in this way more often.

Thanks!  It's very nice - for a change - not to be the only one really
arguing for this position!

Brent Allsop