[extropy-chat] AI is a myth

Wed Feb 15 20:27:04 UTC 2006

Samantha,

I promise not to be a toady anymore.

You have a funny concept of Singularity.  Please offer your proof of why a >
human AI is impossible.  If there is no such proof then there is no basis
for calling such a "myth".  I didn’t use the word impossible. I said I
didn’t believe in a common AI meme. My understanding of an AI singularity is
that when enough computers are hooked up, with enough power, something magic
happens and “life” is created in a process that we will not understand.  By
“life” I mean a conscious entity based on silicon powered by electricity.  I
place the burden of proof upon the people trying to create AI.  AI is an
extraordinary concept, a very sexy meme, humans love it.  Merry Shelly
created the first AI meme when she wrote Frankenstein.  The success of her
work, a 19 year old girl’s short novel eclipsing  her husband and Lord
Byron, is extraordinary and is proof that there is something in the human
psyche that longs for spontaneous life, the regeneration of Jesus, the
rising of the dead.  AI is a fantastic scientific possibility, but I am
dubious that it is inevitable.  It will require enormous human effort to
make a conscious machine.  It is fun to think that some network of Cray’s or
some distant generation of Play Station will suddenly wake up, think
therefore it is, and demand a seat at the UN; but that is all it is, fun,
it’s fiction, it’s The Terminator or War Games, it’s a myth.  

Peter, until someone comes up with a *really* good explanation for the
"missing mass" you have to admit that our current picture of reality is
quite incomplete.  Robert, I do not have to admit reality is incomplete due
to the “missing mass” in the universe.  A is A.  Until I can probe it,
measure it and repeat it and get others to probe it, measure it and repeat
it, with the same results, then it is far worse than *theory*,  it is
wishful thinking and nothing more than the very human urge to find meaning
out of randomness 

Read again.  "Our *picture* of reality is incomplete."

I have read it again and again and my point is weak here but what I wanted
to do was challenge Robert from the start.  Our picture of a universal model
is incomplete.  We don’t know if the universe will expand forever or
implode.  But “reality” is a big word.  Robert was setting up an argument
with me in which I had to admit in the likelihood of alien civilizations
playing god with solar systems, galaxies, and even us.  Taken out of context
the sentence is correct if reality refers to cosmology.  But the sentence is
the first step to get me to agree to a long string of sentences that lead up
to a “concept” that I do not believe.  In reality we have no evidence of
advanced civilizations playing god with solar systems. I wish we did !  And
if Robert was just chatting with me about how such civilizations might
function I would be honored and we’d have a hell of a conversation.
However, I got into this whole mess with Robert because his memes had become
myths to a poster to this site.  Someone who showed evidence of mental
instability was taking what Robert said and using it to support his fantasy.
This person is now going back to his cult and saying that he has been in
continuous contact with Robert and that Robert supports the basis of their
religion/cult.  I don’t want Transhumanism to be associated with a
religion/cult and I needed to confront Robert.

  _____  

From: extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org
[mailto:extropy-chat-bounces at lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Samantha Atkins
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:15 PM
To: ExI chat list
Subject: Re: [extropy-chat] Robert believes in god

On Feb 15, 2006, at 5:38 AM, Peter K. Bertine, Jr wrote:

Robert, I have re-thought my position.  I agreed with you out of fear that I
would be moderated off the list by the force of your highly respected
position.  I was also star struck that you responded to me directly.

Now that could well get you moderated off the list!  :-) YUK.  Please can
the sycophantic crap even if it is sarcasm.

I do not believe that there are any advanced civilizations playing god with
solar systems. I believe that we must believe that we are alone in the
universe until proven otherwise.  I also do not believe in the singularity
concept of AI.  I don’t believe that a magic computer will spontaneously
come along and save/destroy us.  Both of these “concepts” are well disguised
myths that are at the base of many religions.  They are the fuzzy “truths”
taught by cults.  As long as Transhumanism associates itself with these
“concepts” it will remain a fringe meme/memeplex and not worthy of
acceptance by humanity.

You have a funny concept of Singularity.  Please offer your proof of why a >
human AI is impossible.  If there is no such proof then there is no basis
for calling such a "myth". 

Peter, until someone comes up with a *really* good explanation for the
"missing mass" you have to admit that our current picture of reality is
quite incomplete.  Robert, I do not have to admit reality is incomplete due
to the “missing mass” in the universe.  A is A.  Until I can probe it,
measure it and repeat it and get others to probe it, measure it and repeat
it, with the same results, then it is far worse than *theory*,  it is
wishful thinking and nothing more than the very human urge to find meaning
out of randomness 

Read again.  "Our *picture* of reality is incomplete."

- samantha

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