[extropy-chat] Identity (was: Survival tangent)

[Heartland]

John K Clark (in response to Randall Randall):
> In my thought experiment I removed precisely nobody, I EXCHANGED the position of 
> the brain
> of you and your "vastly different" copy, and guess what; subjectively nobody
> noticed, objectively nobody noticed, and even the universe didn't notice!
> Leibniz says that means they are the same thing and if it's good enough for
> Leibniz it's good enough for me.

What is so holy about somebody noticing? If I didn't notice back in 2004 that Bush 
was reelected would that change the fact that he was reelected? And, yet again, I 
remind you that Leibniz never claimed any such thing (although I realize that these 
attempts are probably futile).

John K Clark:
> The original, discuss, the copy, discuss; for God's sake people grow up! If
> you really believe
> in this putrid crap then one of 2 things about you must be true:
>
> 1) You reject the Scientific Method as Heartland does and believes in the
> sanctity of certain atoms.

That is a lie and you know it. Apparently you invent this nonsense just so you can 
safely argue against it so when others read your posts you trick them into taking 
your side with the added bonus that the person who disagrees with you looks like a 
fool and you look like a hero.

[and below is just one of many examples of what I'm talking about]

John K Clark:
> 2) You believe in the soul and you believe even Nanotechnology cannot
> duplicate the soul.
>
> I believe both beliefs are incredibly fantastically comically stupid, but
> that's just my opinion I could be wrong. But I'm not.

Gee, you must be such a good guy for fighting these evil soul-believers. Meanwhile, 
I doubt Randall (or I) who you accuse of this believes in souls. Why can't you just 
accept that you just don't get it and move on? One, you're confused as to what 
"person" is. Two, you don't (or refuse to) understand the definition of "identity" 
yet none of this stops you from talking about "personal identity".

If you recall, at the beginning of this particular chain of threads, I suggested 
you read this introductory and objective article on personal identity. You've 
almost certainly ignored it but I think you would benefit from familiarizing 
yourself with the topic before you start arguing about PI with other people. 
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/identity-personal/

Slawomir