[extropy-chat] META: "Killthread": Is it censorship or sensible?
natasha at natasha.cc
Mon Apr 30 14:52:37 UTC 2007
It was called to my attention that there have been some problems on the
list. Since I am not a moderator I have not followed the thread on this
and since I have been travelling for several weeks, I did not know there
was a problem. But because we share this list as a venue to discuss and
challenge ideas, I think that we all need to take a look at this:
From: Eugen Leitl
>> On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 01:53:25PM +1000, Brett Paatsch wrote:
> >John Grigg wrote:
> > Attempting to impeach the current president is not a realistic plan
> > Why would you think that?
> Folks, killthread. This is completely off-topic for the list.
"Eugen, just so you and I are absolutely clear. If you kill this thread, or
call for it to be killed again. If your are that censorious, I will
remember it and hold it against you whilst you and I live. I would oppose
your reanimation. I will regard you as in the aggregate an entropic vector.
I am willing to be censored off the list, it is a private list after all,
but actions (like censorship) are facts that shape reactions. Being a
person in a world of persons, I take things personally. Fair warning.
If I am censored off the list I would take that as diagnostic of the
degeneration of the list. It is one thing to take issue with a persons
arguments and say so. It is another to stop other people from hearing
those arguments and expressing their reactions which may include
opposition to them. I regard censorship as a form of killing - as do
you by the use of your word killthread.
You are yourself a transient information thread that the universe
has yet to rule on."
Like Brett I do not like being censored. But there is a difference between
being censored and being sensible. The extropy list does have rules and
guidelines and list members are required to follow them in order to post on
this list. Whether or not Brett's thread is on topic for this list is one
issue at stake. Now, there are many variables involved that can add one
way or another such as a post may be a topic the list members want to
engage in but it is not a transhumanist topic per se. Or, it can be a
topic that is curious for list members but the way in which it is presented
to the list, or the language used or implications of the meaning of the
posts can cause a moderator to request that the thread be put to
rest. These variables are important to pay attention to.
Further, and not totally unrelated, I was censored from the Cryonics list
when I was being an activist to help a fellow cryonicist. Now this was
truly strange and frankly made me think much less of cryonicists than I had
prior. But I also understood that it touched a nerve with other list
members and I did not take it personally, retaliate, or blame them. I
belive that I was in the wrong for not paying attention to the feelings of
other list members. I was too busy to read responses, and that was also my
mistake. I was so driven to do something worthwhile that it backfired on me.
I see what you (Brett) are doing as something different but sharing some
similarities. You posted on a topic that you are passionate about. The
difference with you and me is that you are blaming and making accusations
and insulting list members. I would not do this because even if people do
not agree with me, I do my best to accept the differences. You are also
different than me in the way you handled this. Instead of approaching the
topic from a constructive inclusive manner, you made assumptions and
accusations. This never sits well with list members.
And, finally, I do not like is the content of your (Brett) response to the
list moderator (Eugene) requesting that the thread be killed. You made a
threat and does not sit well with me and I'm sure others. But putting that
aside, what do other list members think of this thread?
Lastly, I do think this is a topic that warrants objective examination and
search for resolution. I invite you to think about this.
In hopes of resolution rather than slamming doors,
PhD Candidate, <http://www.planetary-collegium.net/about/>Planetary Collegium
Proactionary Principle Core Group, <http://www.extropy.org/>Extropy
Member, <http://www.profuturists.com/>Association of Professional Futurists
Founder, <http://www.transhumanist.biz/>Transhumanist Arts & Culture
Advisory Committee, <http://www.pietronigro.com/zgac/>Zero Gravity Arts
If you draw a circle in the sand and study only what's inside the circle,
then that is a closed-system perspective. If you study what is inside the
circle and everything outside the circle, then that is an open system
perspective. - Buckminster Fuller
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