[extropy-chat] META: "Killthread": Is it censorship or sensible?

Tue May 1 16:07:35 UTC 2007

At 08:41 PM 4/30/2007, you wrote:
>Hi Natasha,
>
>I hope you enjoyed your stay in Montreal and that
>people where hospitable.

Very.  It was hard work and challenging, but I was able to accomplish a lot.

>I am curious to know why Brett didn't politely, on
>list, ask Eugen why he thought that the thread should
>be killed?

It appears that his emotions were running on explosive ingredients. Not 
everyone can be civil when emotions are out of wack.  Killing a thread is 
not something that is done easily.

Natasha

>Thanks
>Anna:)
>
>
>
>--- Natasha Vita-More <natasha at natasha.cc> wrote:
>
> > It was called to my attention that there have been
> > some problems on the
> > list.  Since I am not a moderator I have not
> > followed the thread on this
> > and since I have been travelling for several weeks,
> > I did not know there
> > was a problem. But because we share this list as a
> > venue to discuss and
> > challenge ideas, I think that we all need to take a
> > look at this:
> >
> >
> > From: Eugen Leitl
> >
><<http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat>eugen
> > at
> > leitl.org>
> >
> >  >> On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 01:53:25PM +1000, Brett
> > Paatsch wrote:
> >  > >John Grigg wrote:
> >  > >
> >  > > Attempting to impeach the current president is
> > not a realistic plan
> >  > >
> >  > > Why would you think that?
> >  >
> >  > Folks, killthread. This is completely off-topic
> > for the list.
> >
> > Brett responded:
> >
> >
> > "Eugen, just so you and I are absolutely clear. If
> > you kill this thread, or
> > call for it to be killed again. If your are that
> > censorious, I will
> > remember it and hold it against you whilst you and I
> > live. I would oppose
> > your reanimation. I will regard you as in the
> > aggregate an entropic vector.
> >
> >
> > I am willing to be censored off the list, it is a
> > private list after all,
> > but actions (like censorship) are facts that shape
> > reactions. Being a
> > person in a world of persons, I take things
> > personally. Fair warning.
> >
> >
> > If I am censored off the list I would take that as
> > diagnostic of the
> >
> > degeneration of the list.  It is one thing to take
> > issue with a persons
> >
> > arguments and say so. It is another to stop other
> > people from hearing
> >
> > those arguments and expressing their reactions which
> > may include
> >
> > opposition to them. I regard censorship as a form of
> > killing - as do
> >
> > you by the use of your word killthread.
> >
> >
> > You are yourself a transient information thread that
> > the universe
> >
> > has yet to rule on."
> >
> > Like Brett I do not like being censored.  But there
> > is a difference between
> > being censored and being sensible.  The extropy list
> > does have rules and
> > guidelines and list members are required to follow
> > them in order to post on
> > this list.  Whether or not Brett's thread is on
> > topic for this list is one
> > issue at stake.  Now, there are many variables
> > involved that can add one
> > way or another such as a post may be a topic the
> > list members want to
> > engage in but it is not a transhumanist topic per
> > se.  Or, it can be a
> > topic that is curious for list members but the way
> > in which it is presented
> > to the list, or the language used or implications of
> > the meaning of the
> > posts can cause a moderator to request that the
> > thread be put to
> > rest.  These variables are important to pay
> > attention to.
> >
> > Further, and not totally unrelated, I was censored
> > from the Cryonics list
> > when I was being an activist to help a fellow
> > cryonicist.  Now this was
> > truly strange and frankly made me think much less of
> > cryonicists than I had
> > prior.  But I also understood that it touched a
> > nerve with other list
> > members and I did not take it personally, retaliate,
> > or blame them.  I
> > belive that I was in the wrong for not paying
> > attention to the feelings of
> > other list members.  I was too busy to read
> > responses, and that was also my
> > mistake.  I was so driven to do something worthwhile
> > that it backfired on me.
> >
> > I see what you (Brett) are doing as something
> > different but sharing some
> > similarities.  You posted on a topic that you are
> > passionate about.  The
> > difference with you and me is that you are blaming
> > and making accusations
> > and insulting list members.  I would not do this
> > because even if people do
> > not agree with me, I do my best to accept the
> > differences.  You are also
> > different than me in the way you handled this.
> > Instead of approaching the
> > topic from a constructive inclusive manner, you made
> > assumptions and
> > accusations.  This never sits well with list
> > members.
> >
> > And, finally, I do not like is the content of your
> > (Brett) response to the
> > list moderator (Eugene) requesting that the thread
> > be killed.  You made a
> > threat and does not sit well with me and I'm sure
> > others.  But putting that
> > aside, what do other list members think of this
> > thread?
> >
> > Lastly, I do think this is a topic that warrants
> > objective examination and
> > search for resolution.  I invite you to think about
> > this.
> >
> > In hopes of resolution rather than slamming doors,
> >
> > Natasha
> >
> >
> > <http://www.natasha.cc/>Natasha
> > <http://www.natasha.cc/>Vita-More
> > PhD Candidate,
> > <http://www.planetary-collegium.net/about/>Planetary
> > Collegium
> > Proactionary Principle Core Group,
> > <http://www.extropy.org/>Extropy
> > <http://www.extropy.org/>Institute
> > Member, <http://www.profuturists.com/>Association of
> > Professional Futurists
> > Founder,
> > <http://www.transhumanist.biz/>Transhumanist Arts &
> > Culture
> > Advisory Committee,
> > <http://www.pietronigro.com/zgac/>Zero Gravity Arts
> > Consortium
> >
> > If you draw a circle in the sand and study only
> > what's inside the circle,
> > then that is a closed-system perspective. If you
> > study what is inside the
> > circle and everything outside the circle, then that
> > is an open system
> > perspective. - Buckminster Fuller
> >
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > extropy-chat mailing list
> > extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> >
>http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
> >
>
>
>
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<http://www.natasha.cc/>Natasha <http://www.natasha.cc/>Vita-More
PhD Candidate, <http://www.planetary-collegium.net/about/>Planetary Collegium
Proactionary Principle Core Group, <http://www.extropy.org/>Extropy 
<http://www.extropy.org/>Institute
Member, <http://www.profuturists.com/>Association of Professional Futurists
Founder, <http://www.transhumanist.biz/>Transhumanist Arts & Culture
Advisory Committee, <http://www.pietronigro.com/zgac/>Zero Gravity Arts 
Consortium

If you draw a circle in the sand and study only what's inside the circle, 
then that is a closed-system perspective. If you study what is inside the 
circle and everything outside the circle, then that is an open system 
perspective. - Buckminster Fuller

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