[ExI] Heroism without self-sacrifice

[Lee Corbin]

Damien writes

>> To me, (and I gather to Max), it's sad that self-sacrifice
>> has become an often important component of heroism.
> 
> But isn't it exactly to the point that *they take risks on behalf of 
> others* which, by apparent rational calculation, they need not, 
> perhaps ought not, take.

Yeah, heroic as defined on-line by one dictionary is as follows.

     1.  epic: very imposing or impressive; surpassing the ordinary
     (especially in size or scale); "an epic voyage"; "of heroic
     proportions"; "heroic ...  

     2.  relating to or characteristic of heroes of antiquity; "heroic
     legends"; "the heroic age"   

     3.  having or displaying qualities appropriate for heroes; "the
     heroic attack on the beaches of Normandy"; "heroic explorers"

     4.  [NOT RELEVANT] expansive: of behavior that is impressive
     and ambitious in scale or scope; "an expansive lifestyle"; "in the
     grand manner"; "collecting on a grand scale"; "heroic undertakings"

     5.  desperate: showing extreme courage; especially of actions
     courageously undertaken in desperation as a last resort; "made a
     last desperate attempt to reach the climber"; "the desperate
     gallantry of our naval task forces marked the turning point in the
     Pacific war"- G.C.Marshall; "they took heroic ...

It's interesting that the *definitions* don't mention anything about
sacrificing for others. But sadly, wikipedia under "heroism" says

   Later [after the Greeks], hero (male) and heroine (female) came to
   refer to characters that, in the face of danger and adversity or from
   a position of weakness, display courage and the will for self-sacrifice,
   that is, heroism, for some greater good, originally of martial courage or
   excellence but extended to more general moral excellence.

If a protagonist went to another planet, say, and exhibited great
courage, determination, ingenuity, and resourcefulness even just
to save his own skin, I'd be happy to call that heroic. True, a
dragon-slayer is, as they say, acting "for some greater good".

So I think I agree with you.

> Reciprocal altruism theory can "explain this 
> away" but that leaves a rather sour taste in one's mouth--which, in 
> turn, can of course be explained by the same reductive principle, but 
> we don't *want* to be disabused, it's a very deep part of who we are 
> that we feel these sentiments and, when circumstances arise, find 
> ourselves driven by them.

What you write is true of most people---but not me, and I think, not
most people on this list. Explaining that a particular hero is really an
evolutionarily derived organism programmed for the most part by
his genes (and for their benefit), and acting entirely in accordance
with the laws of physics, takes absolutely nothing away from my
admiration.

Lee