[ExI] Heroism without self-sacrifice

[PJ Manney]

On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:45 PM, Lee Corbin <lcorbin at rawbw.com> wrote:
> Yeah, heroic as defined on-line by one dictionary is as follows.
>
>     1.  epic: very imposing or impressive; surpassing the ordinary
>     (especially in size or scale); "an epic voyage"; "of heroic
>     proportions"; "heroic ...
>
>     2.  relating to or characteristic of heroes of antiquity; "heroic
>     legends"; "the heroic age"
>
>     3.  having or displaying qualities appropriate for heroes; "the
>     heroic attack on the beaches of Normandy"; "heroic explorers"
>
>     4.  [NOT RELEVANT] expansive: of behavior that is impressive
>     and ambitious in scale or scope; "an expansive lifestyle"; "in the
>     grand manner"; "collecting on a grand scale"; "heroic undertakings"
>
>     5.  desperate: showing extreme courage; especially of actions
>     courageously undertaken in desperation as a last resort; "made a
>     last desperate attempt to reach the climber"; "the desperate
>     gallantry of our naval task forces marked the turning point in the
>     Pacific war"- G.C.Marshall; "they took heroic ...
>
> It's interesting that the *definitions* don't mention anything about
> sacrificing for others. But sadly, wikipedia under "heroism" says

But I'm confused.  Self-sacrifice is clearly implied in definitions 2,
3 & 5.  The heroes of antiquity (2), Normandy (3) and the
Mountains/Pacific (5) demonstrated it.

I'm more intrigued why this concept is such a problem for you.  When
you read fiction, do you empathize with the characters?  Or do you
relate more to the concepts?

PJ