[ExI] "thoughts to live by" regarding youth subculture

Dagon Gmail dagonweb at gmail.com
Tue Nov 11 13:03:56 UTC 2008

> But I do admit that being a citizen of the 1st world pressure cooker is
> *vastly* better than living in a Latin American, Asian or African ghetto
> where basic medicine, healthy and plentiful food, civil liberties, adequate
> shelter and education are only a dream.  But many living legally in our
> "wondrous" 1st world still don't have all their basic living needs met.

incidentally, do google how goths are treated in Iran, Iraq and Mexico.

Dagon wrote:
> Here's how the biggest goth of the known universe, the inventor of the
> whole vampire thing turned out: Used to hang with him in Amsterdam a while:
> >>>
How did your friend wind up inventing the whole Goth/vampire thing?   He
> sounds like quite an individual!

Well of course you realize that was irony.  However I do work from the
assumption VtMm, the RPG in the 1990s was instrumental of
changing mere fringe goth into a mass movement. Not everyone agrees and its
a personal observation. VtM was so passionate, so
sincere in portraying goth as the crucial style, and intimately tied up with
vampirism, and I got the softcover 1st edition VtM book
in 1991 or thereabouts. People around me loved it and I started playing it
it in the netherlands, as one of the first WhiteWolfers a
year or two later. Somewhat later Sebastian picked up his vampire version,
started a LARP in manhattan and this was by all
definitions a legendary affair. He appeared on interviews, with extended
fangs, contact lenses and stylish goth clothes and created
an international craze by imitation. Funny enough late 90s I had an NPC
called "father Sebastian", taken from an online setting
of NYBN (by a guy called quayle) who was clearly a lestatesque spinoff of
something this Quayle had heard when listening to the
ZOMFG stories he heard about goth girls being slutty and all that.

I met sebastian in 2003 when he was publishing his Strigoi Vii book and
there was a brief time when I was planning to write the 2.0
version of the book. That didn't fizzle out, but I got a good look in the
kitchen and Sebastian got a great opportunity to brag about him
fucking with goth penthouse  pets, bloodplay, loads of ambiguous sexuality
powergames, cuffs, tying up, whipping, as well as the
shit with the ventrue, tremere, brujah, blood points and omnious gang-signal
like hand gestures used in the game. If you dont have
a clue what this is all about google - Vampire the Masquerade, LARP,

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odXgZiPmjK4
- http://fathersebastian.livejournal.com/
- http://www.vampires.nu/pages/Books.cfm/ID/1854/PageID/22
- http://www.strigoivii.org/

Sebastian (his real name is Todd) is just a guy surviving. He was more or
less chased out of NY after Bush came to power, I dont
know the full details, but he started to wander the world, have adventures
all that.

> you wrote:
> He had girls so pretty, so kinky, so amazingly attractive you'd swallow
> your words in a second. And he got loaded of selling vampire parafernalia,
> teeth and lenses.
> >>>
> The women were drawn to him because he played the role of the "vampire
> lord?"  Good looks? Charm? Intelligence? Lots of money?  I have read females
> tend to be very attracted to creative/artistic men.  I suppose the first
> substantially enhanced transhumans will have an even greater attraction to
> potential lovers.

I am not a ladies man myself, but in the period I knew him, I saw three of
remarkable quality drift by. The first was a stripper who'd moved to
London and I'd classify her as Daymn pretty. The second wanted to get to
know him to be dominated in extensive variants of anal play and
stuff with dildos. I dont know other details. The third I'd classify as
having the most stunning grey eyes. You can form yourself an idea. The
guy was OK looking, not especially pretty. In 2003 he was more or less a
drifter. He had a big ego, maybe that was it. I'd say his charm was
largely an image matter. You can safely say I was dying with jealousy,
though at the time some people described me in the same terms
as they described Sebastian - a sinister cult figure with ties to laveyan
Satanism. I certainly didnt do the same stuff as he did, though for
some reason everyone thought I was.

you continue:
> As an another example, here is an example why some goth chicks drive me
> insane with desire.
> >>>
> She is gorgeous.  The Goth look for a women (at least to me) is extremely
> seductive and enhances female physical beauty.   Again, I can envision
> genetically modified women in the decades ahead who will embody the Goth
> ideal of beauty as no one really could in our present time.  I hope you are
> able to handle it when you are driven *past* the point of insanity! lol
> Based on what you said regarding the "Goth work ethic," it sounds like I
> should tell my brother to encourage his son (when he gets old enough) to
> become a member of this subculture!  And to think that in the old days kids
> became Boy Scouts for a leg up in life!  ; )

The question is - how do you respond to social exclusion. We know what
happen to people who fit in best - they tend to become
average and boring. So conversely social ostracism either destroys someone,
or drives him or her to excell.
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