[ExI] Mind Uploading article in Wikipedia

Emlyn emlynoregan at gmail.com
Tue Apr 7 04:39:39 UTC 2009

This "consciousness is real" thing isn't logically consistent. It
seems like you think that you can upload someone into "abstract"
software and they'll be just like you but not conscious. Call that
intelligence Brent* .

If I ask Brent* "Are you conscious?", what does he reply? Does he say
"Yes", "No", "Not Sure", something else?

A faithful upload would say "Yes" (and I believe Brent* would because
I think you are a truthful person). So what on earth goes through his
software mind, that he answers yes to this question? Does he think
he's conscious but he's not? If this is the case, how can you tell
that you are not right now actually Brent* ?

2009/4/7 Brent Allsop <brent.allsop at comcast.net>:
> Ask everyone what they think.  Great idea Stathis.  That is precisely the
> purpose of this topic at canonizer.com:
> http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/48
> (Also, joining the yes camp (or any supporting sub camp) gets you one vote
> with the Transhumanist canonizer.  I trust the moral judgment of such people
>  much more than no people.)  And nobody  has to guess when merging all the
> similar responses e-mailed, and nobody has to tally them all up.  And when
> anyone converts to another camp, everyone will  see it instantly.  And we
> won't have to keep asking such questions, and re answering the question for
> everyone over and over again add infinitum.  Wouldn't it be great to know
> concisely, quantitatively, what all transhumanists think, and also what
> everyone else thinks, and why?  I think such knowledge would have a profound
> effect on the world for good, and would allow us to much more powerfully
> propagate such good memes.
> As you can see, so far there are 5 people unanimously in the Yes camp.  And
> two of these people are in a supporting sub camp that recognize that there
> is more to 'uploading' than just a disconected, abstracted system that only
> abstractly behaves like the original, and is not phenomenally like the
> original.
> Mike, when you say you'd just employ drugs to  erase some bad memory or
> whatever, to me such is just as bad as the response I get from people that
> believe some of their loved ones will go to hell.  I ask them if they will
> be happy in heaven knowing their brother is in hell.  Often times they reply
> with something like: 'God will just make us forget them'.  Yea right.  In
> other words, such imaginings are logically impossible for any sufficiently
> advanced / intelligent being.
> The theories described in the consciousness is representational and real
> camp (http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/88/6) predict that there will be effing
> uploading / transporting techniques that will completely eliminate any and
> all of these problems, easily, obviously, scientifically with no worries at
> all for anyone.  A short fictionalized account / falsifiable prediction of
> how this will be done and what it can be phenomenally like is contained in
> two short chapters of a story starting here:
> http://home.comcast.net/~brent.allsop/1229.htm#_Toc22030742
> As always, I'd love to know, concisely and quantitatively what everyone
> thinks, especially if such a story converts anyone to a different camp.
> Upward,
> Brent
> Mike Dougherty wrote:
>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Stathis Papaioannou <stathisp at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Perhaps we could ask the list: is there anyone who would ordinarily
>>> refuse destructive teleportation but would accept if guaranteed that
>>> their soul/ consciousness/ precious bodily fluids would be duplicated?
>> Well, I don't really have anywhere useful to teleport "to" at the
>> moment, but if there is some kind of compensation backing that
>> guarantee...  Then I might be tempted to teleport to anywhere, then
>> try to collect the compensation when I later claim that my "qualia
>> feels all wrong" because I know for sure there's no way to disprove my
>> claim.
>> But on the grounds of honesty, I have to admit that I'm ambivalent
>> regarding teleportation.  By the time we have the technology so it
>> would matter, we'll also have either ReallyGood drugs / effective mind
>> reprogramming so any nagging guilt I might feel can also be simply
>> excised.
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