[ExI] Getting People who Speak Heresies to Shut Up

[Eschatoon Magic]

I like free speech and don't like censorship, so I kind of agree with
Lee on this. And there should be no sacred cows that cannot even be
mentioned: sacred cows are as good for hamburgers as other cows.

But as I said in another thread, if France were to expel its Muslim
citizens, it would also be expelling the Western legal system that,
flawed as it may be, is not half bad. Our legal system gives a
definition of citizenship with associated rights. As I said, nazi
Germany is the only recent precedent I can think of in Western Europe
where an ethnic group and the legal system have been kicked away.

Also, I am often in France, speak fluent French and know Paris and
other cities well. I can tell you that the most alive, interesting and
fun parts of the city are those where many ethnic and cultural groups
coexist.

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 7:42 AM, Lee Corbin <lcorbin at rawbw.com> wrote:
> Fred wrote:
>
>>>> And further what they have posting recently in this thread is not even
>>>> remotely Extropian.
>
>>>
>>>
>>> Again, you *know* what these terms mean, and it is for
>>> the rest of us just to accept, I suppose.
>>
>> I suggest that each individual on this list who uses the term
>> "Extropian" to think long and hard about this.  Do you really want to be
>> associated with the term "Extropian" if the term "Extropian" can be be
>> seen as compatible with advocating that innocent Muslims should be
>> expelled from France?  I am not.
>
> To be associated with (i.e. on the same list as) someone
> who advocates a certain position.
>
> Oh, the horror! Oh, the shame. Indeed, how do you live
> with yourself? It must be hell.
>
> I've never in my life seen anyone so concerned and so
> scared of what other people *might* think about things
> that he himself not only didn't say, but argued (sort of,
> loosely speaking), er, even denounced!
>
> How damned weird. The instinct to suppress unwelcome opinions
> has rarely ever shown itself here in such strength.
>
> Okay, out of total sympathy for your predicament and all
> the others who are *so* sensitive about how guilt by
> association may work against them, and so as to save you
> such utter and complete anguish, embarrassment, and shame,
> I will shut up about what France will do.
>
> Hmm. No, never mind. I won't.
>
>> I do not want the term "Extropian" twisted until it
>
>> includes something like expelling the innocent Muslims
>>
>> from France.
>
> Oh, good God. Of all the silly worries. Your "concern" seems
> most likely only a cover for the deep discomfort that these
> heretical ideas are causing you, and more than anything, you
> seem to just want to shut your eyes and shut your mind to these
> disagreeable thoughts. I'll bet that your ancestors reacted
> extremely harshly and in *precisely* the same manner to all
> the heretic Darwin's extraordinarily disagreeable and upsetting
> ideas.
>
> And I will also bet that they (or, if your particular ones
> do not happen to be guilty of this charge) or others living
> at the time reacted in exactly the same non-intellectual
> and emotional terms, failing to engage in a rational exchange
> of ideas and failing totally to produce any *argument*.
>
>> And remember that deportation of innocent civilians has
>> been considered a Crime Against Humanity since the Nuremberg
>
>> Trials.  So Extropians; do you embrace the idea that
>>
>> advocating a Crime against Humanity is compatible with
>
>> the Extropian principles or do you reject it
>>
>> or do you just not care?
>
> What? You want more to join you into a deafening chorus to
> GET LEE TO SHUT THE HELL UP?
>
> Why is that SO incredibly important to you? I have my own
> ideas (e.g. perhaps it is out of a very deep fear that you
> might actually *lose* an idea-based exchange), but I shouldn't
> speculate.
>
> Well---I've just now got to this email, and there are plenty
> more to read (you wrote the above a few days ago). So it
> will be very interesting if you own "Call to Arms" raises
> other angry voices of denunciation (all, naturally, quite
> free from *rational* argument as to why my suggestion to
> France doesn't lead in the long run to the best solution).
>
> Lee
> _______________________________________________
> extropy-chat mailing list
> extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org
> http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat
>



-- 
Eschatoon Magic
http://cosmeng.org/index.php/Eschatoon
aka Giulio Prisco
http://cosmeng.org/index.php/Giulio_Prisco