[ExI] What is Grace?

Dagon Gmail dagonweb at gmail.com
Thu Mar 12 12:20:32 UTC 2009

> Yes. I did a little study of this subject some time ago and found it
> surprising that some

philosophers argue for retribution not on behalf of the victim, but rather
> on behalf of the

criminal. On this view retributive justice provides the criminal an
> opportunity to do penance.

He finds absolution through suffering.

I regard that as a post-hoc rationalization. As in "society is stuck with
this bloated mess
we call prisons, we cannot and wil not resort to large scale euthanasia or
torture as a
deterrant to crime, nor can we expulse criminals (banishment) because that
would export
criminals (and they might benefit from emigration) - plus ...

1- we cannot guarantee we can deter all crimes, even with the most brutal of
2- we cannot guarantee we can deter all crimes, because we do not have the
required societal resources;
3- not all convicted are guilty;
4- not all found not guilty are innocent;
5- democracy implies that civilians WILL protest by vote radicalization if
they feel the legal system doesn't produce safety;
6- democracy implies that civilians WILL protest by vote radicalization if
societal resources does not enact vengeance in their name.
7- those who paid their debt to society become second-class citizens,
increasing the odds they will transgress again.

hence we accept the twoheaded retard called incarceration as the compromise
from Hell. It produces career
criminals; people who have been habitually exposed to years of institutional
sodomy and rape ( I wouldn't trust
a regular convict about as much as a rapist - who knows what happened to
him, or what he did in prison?)
and worst of all - it has a high error rate on all sides.

My first concern is to chart what causes crime, and why we label certain
behaviors crimes and address those
issues. If there is genetic imperfection or some disease (toxoplasmosis?) at
play, we address those issues.
Next we protect victims. Third we try and reduce what we regard as crimes. I
do not think there is any morally
defensive position to lock up half a million people for possession of

For me the end conclusion is that we must humanely neutralize the capacity
of career criminals. The most
humane treatment I can envision is wireheading them and place them in a
protected environment, feed and
clothe them and let them stare at the pretty lights. It is uncomfortably
close to lobotomization, but I personally
do not see many moral and practical alternatives.

For now I regard freezing them a death sentence. I do not believe current
freezing techniques will create recoverable
humans. Partial reconstructions at best, no better than a clone with some
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