[ExI] To Arms! (was Re: punishment)

Dagon Gmail dagonweb at gmail.com
Thu Mar 26 10:13:17 UTC 2009

> Actually, although a 100% materialist determinist, I also believe the
> concept of free will to have utility. If I do
> something because someone holds a gun to my head, or you send some nanoware
> into it, then my free will has been
> overridden. But if I do something on my own volition, I can be held
> responsible for it, and I've always said that
> we should say in this case that I freely did it, or that my free will was
> operative.
> In fact, I *do* protest hurricanes and earthquakes, in the same sense I
> protest criminal behavior: I want to do whatever
> it takes to stop it.
> The gangs control LA. Google for gang areas, LA, etc., and you'll see their
> dominions. Next people should read about
> the great San Francisco vigilantes, who went into action when officialdom
> was hopelessly corrupt and hopelessly
> incapable of dealing with the criminal element. They held very fair trials,
> acquitted a number of people---and hanged
> the rest!
> Citizens of LA! Arise! March tomorrow on south central, Eagle Rock, and all
> the other areas under gang control. By your
> millions you will overwhelm the mere hundred thousand or so of them! Seize
> back the city! To arms! Prepare the guillotine!
> This is why the second amendment has let you keep your arms, don't you see?
> Just for times like this! Whose city is it
> anyway? Theirs or yours?

In a primitive, backward era, disease and affliction was attributed to lack
of moral character, the punishment of god or the gods,
malignant vapors or unhappy spirits. We now know that these explanations are
laughable, shortsighted, primitive and the result
of flawed education. We now can *clearly* see that miserable management of a
cities infrastructure contributed to disease,
and that you have to do certain things, in logical steps to stop them from

So you come to the conclusion that the US is overrun by "criminal gangs".
You then go and attribute a cause - "free will" and
"incompetent politicians". You seem to conclude that ineptitude of will is
the cause for a collapse of infrastructure and the
formation of gangs. You then go and assert that "the people", and you
suggest you can make a clear and precise, almost
Berlusconi-esque incission seperation the meek from the gangbanger, and are
sure that if this "noble citizenry" (you can
reconize the good ones - they were white robes and hold their hands on
solemn prayer) can be precisely aimed to (and here
is where it gets really exiting) take up arms and go for the bad ones (and
they wear dark sinister robes and are generally found
in an alley fornicating.

I say you do *PRECISELY* what is wrong in this case. People a century from
now will roll of their hoverchairs laughing. It is
like medieval townspeople protesting the filth and squallor of those bad
parts of town, and assert a good flogging will make sure
these scoundrels will learn to keep the place clean. You will ADD TO THE
PROBLEM with your assessment and proposed
course of action. Your popular lynchmob will attract precisely the
gangbangers you wish to unroot, and they will use your little
lynchmob to strike at other gangs. You will disperse more and more gangs
throughout the population.

This week the EU president said : America is on the road to

This is completely true in my assessment. And it is because people have no
clue what is right or wrong, what is sensible or
destructive, what are causes and what are results.

In the above example - the situation is unsalvagable. Once you let a society
rot, allow the formation of an underclass that has
absolutely no meaningful association with society, cannot care for itself,
yet is completely dependent on the resources of
society to survive - then you have created the basic requirements for
banditry. It is about as simple as smearing your wounds
with feces and getting infected. Yet the ideological "free will" people keep
asserting that "that damn cripple most stop lingering
before the store entrance because he smells bad". What alternative does the
cripple have?  The next dead rhetoric is,
"nothing wrong with your hands, everyone is equal in the eyes of the lord,
get a job" - and hearing that I WISH upon all those
assholes who do say that, to get lingering cancer for ten years. So they
know what it means to lose a job, be able to not make
any meaningful contribution and slowly die in yoiur own filth. Bear in mind,
if you are there, at rock bottom, the MOST PAINFUL
is some asshole say "get a job". It makes you grow a burning, simmering
hatred for the asshole and all he stands for ... let's
just say that pretty soon I expect the first born americans to commit blind
acts of terrorism against what they perceive to be
the other side.

However - the rhetoricians on either side will not crawl from their
trenches. Nothing will change. Decades from now, there will
still be moral retards who insist "those miscreants need a sound flogging".
In fact - I am absolutely sure Mirek Topolanek is
totally correct, but not just because of flawed economic plans. America is
indeed on the road to hell, *not because it is a
society - it is an experiment in breeding ruthlessness*. If it gets really
out of hand, I will do my part and send a box of food
aid. Something like powdered milk and canned spiced ham and Seasme street T
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