[ExI] don't let your guard down, not for a minute...
santostasigio at yahoo.com
Sat Sep 11 04:09:52 UTC 2010
Utopian Socialism is a term used to define the first currents of modern
Socialist thought. Utopian socialists never actually used this name to
describe themselves; the term "utopian socialism" was introduced by Karl
Marx and used by later socialist thinkers, to describe early socialist
or quasi-socialist intellectuals who created hypothetical visions of
perfect egalitarian and communalist societies without actually
concerning themselves with the manner in which these societies could be
created or sustained....
Although it is technically possible for any person living at any time in
history to be a utopian socialist, the term is most often applied to
those utopian socialists who lived in the first quarter of the 19th
century. From the mid-19th century onwards, the other branches of
socialism far surpassed the utopian version in terms of intellectual
development and number of supporters. Utopian Socialists were important
in the formation of modern movements for intentional community and
cooperatives, such as Open Source and Techno Communism.
The term "scientific socialism" is sometimes used by Marxists to
describe their version of socialism, specifically for the purpose of
counterposing it to Utopian Socialism which was descriptive and
idealistic (in a sense of representing an ideal) rather than scientific,
i.e., developed by means of reasoning and based on social sciences....
Utopian Socialism in Modern Culture
Heaven is often described as something similar to a socialist utopia,
but the most familiar utopian socialist society would be that of the
United Federation of Planets in the popular television series Star Trek -
particularly that depicted in The Next Generation. There is no money,
no want, no poverty, no crime, no disease or ignorance in human society;
everyone works for the advancement of all humanity--as well as the rest
of the Federation.
--- On Fri, 9/10/10, samantha <sjatkins at mac.com> wrote:
From: samantha <sjatkins at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [ExI] don't let your guard down, not for a minute...
To: "ExI chat list" <extropy-chat at lists.extropy.org>
Date: Friday, September 10, 2010, 8:59 PM
On 9/10/10 4:13 PM, giovanni santostasi wrote:
I agree that on the
book communism is a far superior social organization than
Based on what exactly? On what "book"?
exploitation as a key element by design.
False. Only freely entered trades and other contracts are allowed.
No initiation of force including fraud is allowed.
In a way the fact
that many people enjoy a modest level of benefits from
capitalistic society is 1) the result of non capitalistic
forces achieving rights for the individual 2) a clever
form of exploitation similar to the roman emperors slogan
"give them bread and entertainment and the people would be
submissive". It simply makes us better consumers to be
given crumbles of the big pie so we happily exploited and
Empty assertions with neither argument or evidence.
Of course, so far
any real mass-scale communism experiment has failed
mostly because has been hijacked by tyrannical figures
that used communism as a cover up.
Or it is broken by design as I and many others contend including
many who are former communists.
Communism is a very
idealistic approach to society, that if maybe unpractical
(at least given the level of development of humans at this
point) shares a lot with the transhumanist ideal of life.
If the "ideal" is not at all based in reality then how can it be
ideal for producing the best living systems of real human beings? A
system that would work only for some poorly defined quite different
beings than what humans are deserves scathing contempt - not
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